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David Prall

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Okay.... here's a nice newbie question.... For speakers..... Should I bi-wire or just single wire with the jumpers in place.... AND, banana or spade connectors? Keep in mind that after dropping all that money on speakers, amp, and CD player, buying a 1-49K speaker wire pair is NOT in the cards. :p
 

Statman

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David,


What cable were you thinking of going with? I would recommend that you at least look into Signal cables if you are strapped for money right now. I switched from Cardas which was a smoother laid back type of presentation to Signal silver cables and have been very pleased with it's performance. I won't even start with the cable pricing that is ridiculous and just feeds on the fact that people will pay higher prices in believing they are getting a better product. :rolleyes:

I personally am bi-wiring my Odysseys using spades. I also did the same with my Sequel II's when they were my mains. I'm sure others will chime in with their own opinions on bi-wiring? Good luck.
 

DTB300

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For my opinion and I am sure other will add theirs too...

Bi-Wire will make a small change

Change the jumpers over to wires will make a better change

I prefer spades over bananas for speaker connecctions unless you plan on removing and putting back the wires on a consistent basis. Bananas are fine if you have no kids or animals that may be around the speakers.

Which wire to use is very subjective. For cost versus performance I like DH-Lab, but there are many other companies to consider - companies using DIY products like Belden cable are Blue Jeans, Signal, Heartland, Elemental. And some regular companies to look at are Audioquest, Nordost, Tara, and on and on and on. Find your price point and find companies that will offer you either audition capabilities, or return policies if you do not like them.

Dan
 

Gordon Gray

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Try Mapleshade

David,

Give "Mapleshade double helix plus" a try. A 16' pair will set you back about $500. Talk with Sue on 30 day moneyback regarding "in stock" versus custom. I think you can get a 12' pair for under $400 with the 30 day moneyback. There are also less expensive Mapleshade options. They also make a "foil strap", if you don't biwire, for around $25. I'm using them on my Summits along with many other Mapleshade products in my system. A great hidden treasure, in my opinion, and phenomenal bang for the buck.

GG
 

roberto

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David Prall said:
Okay.... here's a nice newbie question.... For speakers..... Should I bi-wire or just single wire with the jumpers in place.... AND, banana or spade connectors? Keep in mind that after dropping all that money on speakers, amp, and CD player, buying a 1-49K speaker wire pair is NOT in the cards. :p
Buenas...I will suggest a good speaker cable... :rolleyes: good means heavy gauge and musical, not necessary expensive. Thin cables are more resistive than thick and this means that you will loose some power at the cable (cable will get warm or hot) :eek: . Heavy thick cable will assure less resistance, but also you have to deal with inductance and capacitance. In other words, speaker cable manufactures know this effect, and they try to offer the best conductivity from your amp to your speakers. Use spade connectors. In Audiogon you can buy used cables in mint conditions for a good price too. There are so many brands on the market, and some the names are: Nordost, DHlabs, TaraLabs, Kimber, harmonic Tech, Audio Quest, Monster Cable, Tributaries, to name a few. Hope this can help,
Pura vida,
Roberto. :D
 

SugarMedia

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David,

Also check out Audiogon.com for some great deals on wire. I managed to get some mint condition Nordost cables for a fraction of the retail price.
 

Gordon Gray

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Good does not necessarily mean heavy gauge

Roberto,

You have much more technical knowledge than I about electronics but I must respecfully disagree with your comment "good .... means heavy gauge". We all know cable issues lie in the land of subjectivity, system snergy, component colorations, room acoustics, and all that other voodo stuff.

I am convinced, based on my experience with Mapleshade speaker wire, that the opposite is true. Pierre's wire is quite small, relatively speaking and sounds wonderful in my system which consists of Summits, Classe Audio CA150 amp, CJ Premier 18 LS preamp, Theta Miles CD player, and the Michael Green clamp rack.

From my reading of Pierre's theory on wire, "thick" cable induces colorations due to "skin effect" on the actual signal which results in a less accurate sound being sent to your speakers.

I encourage everyone to try the Mapleshade speaker wire. If you don't like it, they offer a 30 day moneyback guarantee.

GG
 

roberto

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Gordon Gray said:
Roberto,

You have much more technical knowledge than I about electronics but I must respecfully disagree with your comment "good .... means heavy gauge". We all know cable issues lie in the land of subjectivity, system snergy, component colorations, room acoustics, and all that other voodo stuff.

I am convinced, based on my experience with Mapleshade speaker wire, that the opposite is true. Pierre's wire is quite small, relatively speaking and sounds wonderful in my system which consists of Summits, Classe Audio CA150 amp, CJ Premier 18 LS preamp, Theta Miles CD player, and the Michael Green clamp rack.

From my reading of Pierre's theory on wire, "thick" cable induces colorations due to "skin effect" on the actual signal which results in a less accurate sound being sent to your speakers.

I encourage everyone to try the Mapleshade speaker wire. If you don't like it, they offer a 30 day moneyback guarantee.

GG
You might be right with Mapleshade, and my statement was in a general way of speaking...please forgive my dare to say such thing!...that´s why I always say: Trust your ears and keep the one that you like most. There are many electronic ways to handle the signal, and the final judgement are our ears! Now think of this proposal: You have a lot of energy in your amplifier, and you have to take this enery with no loss of it to the speakers, right? would you use a heavy gauge wire or a thin wire? My common sense tells me use the heavy one. If you look your main A.C. cables from your house rack, where the breakes are, they are very heavy, and if you have an electric stove, they must be heavy or your dryer, right?...Many of us, think that a wire is just that, a wire. So, that´s why I said that. The energy of the amplifier is strangulated due to a very thin cable, not a particular brand with a special design. This was what I was saying...but again, you are right. Our world is different (hi end and listening music) and we listen different. Good to know that your cables are great! Again, I do apologize!. Happy listening,
Pura vida,
Roberto.
 
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David Prall

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Thanks so much everyone for all your help/advice. It still amazes me just how many choices there are for what seems so simple an item as a wire to get the signal from point A to B. :) With my choice of Amp, I may consider a cable that might be considered "warm" if that can be done somewhat reasonably without compromising the breadth and clarity of sound that enticed me to buy the Logans to start with. Given my love for highs and mids along with presence or spaciousness, the Vantage seemed the best speaker choice for me! I look forward to hearing all of my music all over again and noticing all the detail that I never realized was missing before. :D

Thanks again!
 

DTB300

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Try to check out as many cables as you can. Why? See if you hear a difference between cables - some do, some don't. See at what cost you have the best sound for your liking. Some find higher priced cables better, some are happy with lower priced ones.

Someone here made a great suggestion that I forgot about and that is The Cable Company. www.fatwyre.com They enable you to audition cables, and send back what you don't like. They also have a used cable site www.usedcables.com

Dan
 

Zorro

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Try some MIT cables

David,

In addition to the other cable brands suggested earlier, you may also want to try MIT. I get good results with them. As a baseline, try the MIT Shotgun S3 single-wire (non bi-wire) speaker cables and work upwards if your budget permits. Good deals can be found at Audiogon.

Just my opinion: Subjectively, I find that the newer MLs tend to sound more coherent if run in single-wire configuration. You sacrifice a bit of bass, but speech tends to be slightly more intelligible and you get a more engaging listening experience.
Theoretically (just my guess here, no concrete proof), coupled to the fact that the Vantages have an active woofer and hence a slightly more complex crossover (passive high-pass filter and active low-pass filter?), keeping things simple by not bi-wiring may be recommended.

Happy listening and I'm sure you will get even better results with your Krell & ML combo with better cables.

PS. If you want a warmer sound from the tuner/XM, you can try a pair of MIT AVt MA interconnects between your Yamaha and Krell.
 

attyonline

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Dominick22 said:
From most impact on sound to least impact in wiring:

Bi-AMP

BI-WIRE

JUMPER

Dominick
What is dominick wire and why does it have less impact than the other modes?
;)
 

lugano

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try diy..

David Prall said:
Okay.... here's a nice newbie question.... For speakers..... Should I bi-wire...Keep in mind that after dropping all that money on speakers, amp, and CD player, buying a 1-49K speaker wire pair is NOT in the cards. :p
Hi David, and welcome. Biwiring brings only thicker cabling with it. If you're on a tight budget, I would also consider the DIY Way. Check out the articles about it here: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diycables.html

I've had wonderful results with CAT-7 ethernet cable, at a very cheap price.
 

David Prall

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LOL Looks like Dominick needs a longer signature..... that or maybe he really HAS branded his own wire. hehe :D
 

Gordon Gray

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No apologies necessary Roberto

Roberto,

Your logic regarding power cord sizes to appliances, etc. is sound. No pun intended. However, I suspect wire (gauge) size for electrical appliances power cords, romax, and such are determined by the Uniform Building Code for different reasons and may not be analagous to the amp / speaker interface.

You need not apologize for the difference of opinion on this issue. We all know there are many ways to get the "right" sound from a system given all the various interface issues involved. Having read many of your comments on this site, you are obviously well informed, well intentioned, and well respected.

One additional comment. Carnegie Hall in NYC sounds different than Davies Hall in San Fransico, which sounds different than ..., etc. Which is the "right" sound? It all depends on your perspective. To quote an old adage which I believe is applicable to music listening, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Best regards.

GG
 
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David Prall

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As a quick question related to Dominick's suggestion about "jumper". Does this mean that it is suggested that I find a different type of jumper between the posts than Martin Logan used? If so, what kind of jumper would be needed? Just a simple wire, or is there something else that will fit that span between wiring posts? I was thinking that what was supplied was already the best choice if you didn't bi-wire, and you would only remove it if you did bi-wire.
 

DTB300

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David Prall said:
As a quick question related to Dominick's suggestion about "jumper". Does this mean that it is suggested that I find a different type of jumper between the posts than Martin Logan used? If so, what kind of jumper would be needed? Just a simple wire, or is there something else that will fit that span between wiring posts? I was thinking that what was supplied was already the best choice if you didn't bi-wire, and you would only remove it if you did bi-wire.
A few people here have reported improvements in sound by replacing the metal jumpers with a piece of wire between. There are companies that make jumpers with either spades or bananas, or you can take a piece of your own wire to test with.

I Bi-Amp my Sequel II's (Surround Speakers) and have not tried the wire jumpers. But my center channel by B&W has bi-wire capabilities and since I use DH-Lab for the cable to it, I also used the DH-Lab jumpers.

Dan
 

cleon

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:) i found the best by far speaker cable for ml,s...........Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval.............try it and and this day is going to be remembered !!!
 
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