socialxray
Well-known member
Ok well maybe the AVR-1805 isn't exactly a mid-fi receiver. More like a lo-fi receiver knocking on the door to the mid-fi clubhouse trying to get in. But at least its trying!
Soundstage size on clsIIz's
- Thread starter StormBringer
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
jjqiv
Well-known member
socialxray said:I can confirm that the SL3s are fairly easy to drive with a mid-fi receiver (Denon AVR-1805). I can get all the way to -14 on the volumn control with the most demanding recordings and higher on less demanding recordings before I can sense the music getting harsh, congested, strained.
On music that is mixed to go loud (Beastie Boys - To The 5 Burroughs) I can get to +4 (or maybe even higher).
Either way it is plenty loud for me in my room. That is until I get better equipment. Shhh! Don't tell the wife. Hehe.
(Damn, there I go again, showing my mid-fi roots.)
There is a lot more to music reproduction than playing loudly, with little distortion. You have only scratched the surface of capabilities of your SL3's.
Sky Saw
Well-known member
Lance, thanks for the lo-down on CLS' and room size. Wow, you know how to make a person want a pair of CLS'!
I hope with my last post here I was not sound pompus. I do not have any issues with low-fi or low-mid-fi or anything at any level for that matter.
What it comes down to is what you can afford, making it the best possible for you and the various situations that present us in life and what you enjoy. Believe me, I do not have anything that I would consider esoteric or very high end,except for my ML's Everyones situation is different, we all hear differently and the possibilities are endless with combination/situations
I only try to offer advice and sometimes an opinion. At times, when I steal time at work, I do post which I should not and will eventually get burned for it but no excuse. I apologize if I offended anyone. I do not wish to be short.
Jeff
What it comes down to is what you can afford, making it the best possible for you and the various situations that present us in life and what you enjoy. Believe me, I do not have anything that I would consider esoteric or very high end,except for my ML's
Everyones situation is different, we all hear differently and the possibilities are endless with combination/situationsI only try to offer advice and sometimes an opinion. At times, when I steal time at work, I do post which I should not and will eventually get burned for it but no excuse. I apologize if I offended anyone. I do not wish to be short.
Jeff
Sky Saw
Well-known member
Jeff, you are a model of forum decorum. I couldn't imagine anyone ever being offended by any of your posts. Keep those good-vibes coming
Sky Saw
Thanks
I try to be honest. I may be older than some and all I want is for all of us just to stop a bit and enjoy the gifts (ML's) we have and enjoy life
Thanks
I try to be honest. I may be older than some and all I want is for all of us just to stop a bit and enjoy the gifts (ML's) we have and enjoy life
socialxray
Well-known member
Jeff Zaret and pompus? Just doesn't go together.
Hey Jeff if you where referring to me please know that no offense was even remotely considered!!! I guess I need to watch my somewhat juvenile prose.
I was trying to be funny in a self-deprecating way. Well my wife tells me that my sense of humor is not normal. I guess she is right.
Anyway, Jeff you are a nice man with some great sounding equipment. Never apologize for that.
Hey Jeff if you where referring to me please know that no offense was even remotely considered!!! I guess I need to watch my somewhat juvenile prose.
I was trying to be funny in a self-deprecating way. Well my wife tells me that my sense of humor is not normal. I guess she is right.
Anyway, Jeff you are a nice man with some great sounding equipment. Never apologize for that.
Socialxray,
No it was not towards you or anyone just in general.
The stange or what-ever type of humor is always best in my "book".
If you knew me you would know that I am a bit off center anyway.
Jeff
No it was not towards you or anyone just in general.
The stange or what-ever type of humor is always best in my "book".
If you knew me you would know that I am a bit off center anyway.
Jeff
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
great thread you guys...
I heard CLS's one time when they were first introduced, but not since then...
I heard CLS's one time when they were first introduced, but not since then...
zaphod
Well-known member
TomDac said:great thread you guys...
I heard CLS's one time when they were first introduced, but not since then...
next time you're in vancouver...
Tom,
Anytime you travel down here to S Ca let me know and you can listen to my CLS's
Jeff
Anytime you travel down here to S Ca let me know and you can listen to my CLS's
Jeff
E
esoxhntr
Guest
I am a huge fan of CLS IIz speakers, but I don't think that they will work out too well in a large room like that without some help from a sub. When I moved last year from a small room to a larger space, I learned very quickly that the CLS IIz wouldn't fill the room on their own, and my room is quite a bit smaller than 700 square feet at 15' x 14'. You will not have to be worried about placement of a sub - they can be placed almost anywhere and be inobtrusive, but if you don't want the complication of a sub then you would likely be happier with Ascents, or even better in that size of space a pair of ReQuests. Whoever said earlier in this post that ReQuests are the best buy in high end audio is bang on.
In that size of room, I would be thinking about Prodigys, but they are far more expensive. Also (almost forgot to mention this), CLS IIzs are a notoriously difficult load to drive. I have heard some awfully good amps sound...well...awful trying to do the job. ReQuests and Ascents are a better match for most amplifiers.
Just my $.02...
In that size of room, I would be thinking about Prodigys, but they are far more expensive. Also (almost forgot to mention this), CLS IIzs are a notoriously difficult load to drive. I have heard some awfully good amps sound...well...awful trying to do the job. ReQuests and Ascents are a better match for most amplifiers.
Just my $.02...
Last edited:
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
Darn.. was just down in Palm Springs visiting friends recently.... Next time Jeff!Jeff Zaret said:
Reverb2009
Well-known member
TomDac said:Darn.. was just down in Palm Springs visiting friends recently.... Next time Jeff!
PALM SPRINGS! you were down in my neck of the woods. I work in Palm Spring but live in La Quinta.
Tom.
Well I am 75 NE of L.A. but you have passed by close enough to take a detour.
Oh well next time.
Zip3kx07 next time you get the urge to go to Six Flags, I am about 35 minutes from there..........................
Jeff
Well I am 75 NE of L.A. but you have passed by close enough to take a detour.
Oh well next time.
Zip3kx07 next time you get the urge to go to Six Flags, I am about 35 minutes from there..........................
Jeff
StormBringer said:
Newer does not always mean better. Actually the older electronics are a prized match to both the older and newer panels for many folks. I know of more than just a few that firmly believe they offer the best in absolute sound quality. However, there is a price for that and it comes in a package that can be a harder load for certain amplifiers, as well as being more limited in bass response. Now that only becomes a concern if one considers and treats the CLS as a full range transducer. Personally I do not do that and so those two mentioned issues do not come into play for me.
While it is true that the newer updated CLS models are more amplifier friendly and do reach deeper down, subjectively I feel they have lost a bit of their magic compared to the earlier models. The newer models are certainly more market friendly though. I am sure that must have influenced the decision to compromise a quality for a quantity.
Dave
Y
yawg
Guest
Open listening environment
Hi all,
I also have a pair of CLS IIz (for 3 years now, they are @ 8 years old now) and listen to them in a smallish room (6.5 by 3.5 metres) with the back door open to the kitchen all the time. IMO this is no compromise but a very good idea because I found with the door open you have sort of a huge tube-trap which helps avoiding annoying room resonances in the bass. In the summer I also open the door from the kitchen to the outside
The CLS won't play loud enough to annoy my neighbors anyway
Another thing, watch out: there are many different flavors of "IIz", I looked in some of their electronic cases and they all looked different to me, you get CLS II's "upgraded" to "z" with quite simple electronics and smaller transformers which I had once and which played not as loud as my current ones, about 3 dBs difference IMO which is quite a bit for a speaker that can't play very loud in the first place ...
It seems ML has been "silently" improving the design of the IIz over the years (better sensitivity, easier amp load, better bass) so the best bet would be to get a recent design, the late "Anniversary Edition" being the best but probably very hard to find.
Very important are also the panels, you want to look for the ones with the yellow stripes. They won't develop dead spots and have a long life, when you vacuum them regularly they can only lose their tension and begin to buzz on some notes in the upper bass. Mine start to do that now at "high" volumes ...
Jörg.
Jeff Zaret said:
Hi all,
I also have a pair of CLS IIz (for 3 years now, they are @ 8 years old now) and listen to them in a smallish room (6.5 by 3.5 metres) with the back door open to the kitchen all the time. IMO this is no compromise but a very good idea because I found with the door open you have sort of a huge tube-trap which helps avoiding annoying room resonances in the bass. In the summer I also open the door from the kitchen to the outside
The CLS won't play loud enough to annoy my neighbors anyway
Another thing, watch out: there are many different flavors of "IIz", I looked in some of their electronic cases and they all looked different to me, you get CLS II's "upgraded" to "z" with quite simple electronics and smaller transformers which I had once and which played not as loud as my current ones, about 3 dBs difference IMO which is quite a bit for a speaker that can't play very loud in the first place ...
It seems ML has been "silently" improving the design of the IIz over the years (better sensitivity, easier amp load, better bass) so the best bet would be to get a recent design, the late "Anniversary Edition" being the best but probably very hard to find.
Very important are also the panels, you want to look for the ones with the yellow stripes. They won't develop dead spots and have a long life, when you vacuum them regularly they can only lose their tension and begin to buzz on some notes in the upper bass. Mine start to do that now at "high" volumes ...
Jörg.
yawg,
It sounds like your room is similar to mine. Great sound!!. I just recently replaced the panels on my CLSIIz's and it was amazing the greater clarity I got from th new panels.
I did look at my electronics on mine, since I bought them used last year, and they were upgraded from ii'A's to iiZ's. The iiA version was not manufactured that long and I am not sure of the difference. I purchased them from the original owner who purchased them in 1990?
Anyway, I am enjoying them to no end and everytime I sit down to listen I hear something new or much clearer than before.
Jeff
It sounds like your room is similar to mine. Great sound!!. I just recently replaced the panels on my CLSIIz's and it was amazing the greater clarity I got from th new panels.
I did look at my electronics on mine, since I bought them used last year, and they were upgraded from ii'A's to iiZ's. The iiA version was not manufactured that long and I am not sure of the difference. I purchased them from the original owner who purchased them in 1990?
Anyway, I am enjoying them to no end and everytime I sit down to listen I hear something new or much clearer than before.
Jeff
