Sanders MODEL 10 Electrostatic Speaker, has anyone heard them?

[Robert D]

http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/model-10-electrostatic-speaker
Wondering if anyone here has ever listened to these speakers and amp. Maybe someone owns them?

The price of the speakers, crossovers, and amp seems pretty fair IMO. They all have a lifetime warranty too. Just wondering how the sound will compare to Martin Logan speakers in the same price point. The whole package is $20,000, but the amp alone is $7000. Not sure what the crossovers and other electronics are worth, so it's hard to estimate how much you are paying for the speakers. Maybe $11,000?

I'd think they would sound better than my Prodigy speakers? These might be something for me to seriously consider for the future. Anyone got experience with the Sanders speakers and amps?

 

[JonFo]

I have heard these twice in Audio Show demo rooms. So only have an hour or so total seat time with them.

They sound really good, the transmission-line low end is dynamic and clean, the panel is like any well-built ESL, very clear, and puts out a nice sound. Part of the secret is the active XO and the steep XO curves and the time alignment of the two halves. The panel is large enough to have good dynamics and coverage.

Beaming is a bit of an issue at first, but with some creative acoustic treatments (required for any ESL IMHO), one can either focus or broaden the soundstage. I still prefer the results of the ML curved stator.

As for costs, it seems competitive for what one gets, as those amps are absolutely worth what they charge, and when included in the package, make it a deal compared to the ML line. Note: you still need an amp for the woofer, but most already have one, or a reasonable cost model can be used.

My guestimate for the active XO they ship is around $500, but I'd rather use a $1K DriveRack Venu360.

So yes, the speakers alone are in the 11 to $12K range.

 

[Robert D]

I have heard these twice in Audio Show demo rooms. So only have an hour or so total seat time with them.

They sound really good, the transmission-line low end is dynamic and clean, the panel is like any well-built ESL, very clear, and puts out a nice sound. Part of the secret is the active XO and the steep XO curves and the time alignment of the two halves. The panel is large enough to have good dynamics and coverage.

Beaming is a bit of an issue at first, but with some creative acoustic treatments (required for any ESL IMHO), one can either focus or broaden the soundstage. I still prefer the results of the ML curved stator.

As for costs, it seems competitive for what one gets, as those amps are absolutely worth what they charge, and when included in the package, make it a deal compared to the ML line. Note: you still need an amp for the woofer, but most already have one, or a reasonable cost model can be used.

My guestimate for the active XO they ship is around $500, but I'd rather use a $1K DriveRack Venu360.

So yes, the speakers alone are in the 11 to $12K range.

So the new price puts the speakers some where between the 11 A and the 13A. I see that the size of the panels are bigger than either of those ML speaker panels. The size of the panel is close to the ML 15A's panel. Its said that Sanders helped invent the curved stator panel but "refuses" to use it now because he feels that the straight panel sounds more accurate and overall better. Id have to hear them.

I also like the lifetime warranty on the speakers, and I think amps too. Thats amazing. I wonder, does that even cover the electrostatic panel itself? Im surprised if it does because those do wear out after 20 years or so. If you get replacement panels once they wear out then this is an unparalleled value IMO. It certainly seems like a better value than the Martin Logans.

Its nice too how he has the crossovers already calibrated for the buyer. Ive never set up anything like that and if it works well then thats great for me.

Im not in the market now to buy more speakers, but will sometime in the future and these look promising.

 

[Robert D]

As for costs, it seems competitive for what one gets, as those amps are absolutely worth what they charge, and when included in the package, make it a deal compared to the ML line. Note: you still need an amp for the woofer, but most already have one, or a reasonable cost model can be used.

Yeah. Id think my Aragon amp would do just fine driving the woofers and use his amp for the panels. Right now its just my Aragon driving the pair of Prodigies I have and it sounds good. Otherwise one could purchase another of his amp at $6000 or $7000. Could always sell my used stuff.

 

[twich54]

Robert, my impression pretty much follows that of Jonathan's and to that I haven't heard them in close to 8-10 years. With that being said, while I remember liking very much what I heard they were somewhat of a 'head in a vice' listening experience and I thought the looks reminded me of something out of a High School shop class. As for the 'lifetime warranty', would that be yours, the speakers or Roger ??

 

[Robert D]

Robert, my impression pretty much follows that of Jonathan's and to that I haven't heard them in close to 8-10 years. With that being said, while I remember liking very much what I heard they were somewhat of a 'head in a vice' listening experience and I thought the looks reminded me of something out of a High School shop class. As for the 'lifetime warranty', would that be yours, the speakers or Roger ??

The looks aren't impressive, but sound would be more important to me. Good point about the warranty! I wonder if anyone takes over his business when he retires or passes away.

 

[Robert D]

Great thread on it here. Someone that owned them gives feedback.

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ws-on-audio-the-discussion-thread.2615/page-7

 

[Mirolab]

I've heard Sanders at shows several times, and what's unique about his demo setup is that he'll have about 4 chairs in a line between the speakers, so that each seat is in the sweet spot, equidistant from the speakers. In this zone, sitting down, the sound approaches the best I've heard from any speaker, ever. BUT... this is also indicative of the deal breaker for me. If you move out of that narrow sweet-zone, the sound is not great. The highs fall off, and it's not fun at all while walking around the room. For me..... my speakers need to fill the room, and or multiple rooms with great, lively sound. My SL3's do that respectably, although still not quite as well as my dynamic speakers. Martin Logan went curved for good reason!

 

[Jazzman53]

I've not heard Sanders' speakers but I've built several flat-panel ESL's with 10" transmission line woofers below the panel, so I have a pretty good idea how they sound: Magical imaging and big slam in the sweet spot, but if you move even one-foot outside the sweet spot, the highs fall off a cliff and some of the magic is lost.

I loved my flat-panel ESL's for solo listening but I found myself wishing for a wider sweet spot whenever company dropped in. Ultimately; the head-in-a-vise sweet spot was a deal breaker for me too.

So then; I dreamed up a scheme to have it both ways, using symmetrically segmented welding rod stators with switch-selectable wide and narrow dispersion modes. The details of how this was done are shown here: A Segmented Wire Stator ESL with Selectable Wide/Narrow Dispersion

The welding rod panels sounded great but were just butt-ugly, and the novelty of the switch-mode feature wore off pretty quickly because I had to power down to switch dispersion modes (lest the high voltage fry the multi-pole rotary switch) and then re-EQ the panel each time.

My latest ESLs are full-dipole hybrids with lovely symmetrically segmented wire stators that give wide and smooth-trending dispersion. For the reasons noted above, I opted not to incorporate the switch mode feature in my new Jazzman MkIII ESL's, shown here: Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page