Question on ML Surround Setup I'm considering

[cyniclaus]

EDIT: I decided to go with a Vantage/Motif system but still need advice on surrounds (see my latest post below)

Hi all,

I listened to some ML EM ESLs in a local shop over the weekend, and I think I'm hooked!

I'm trying to figure out what the best setup will be for me for my home theater. The default option is, of course, to go with the complete Electromotion series by adding the EM-FX2 surrounds and the EM-C2. However, I read in a Review that voices sounded thin on that center and that really concerns me since I watch a lot of movies and the center channel is extremely important.

My question is: do you think there would be substantial benefit in paying the extra to get a real electrostat as a center? I was looking at either the Motif or the Matinee, but I'm not sure if one or either would be suited to the setup and mesh with the EM-ESLs like I would hope they would.

Also, I saw a site (authorized dealer) selling "factory refreshed" ML products. Anybody know what kind of warranty might come with these, if any?

Thanks much!

 

[Hocky]

I haven't heard the CM2, but I am betting it is not a legit substitute for an ESL center.

 

[mopar04]

I got the Motif and have been really happy with it. I was going to get the stage but between ML wanting $800 extra for gloss black (wtf!) and it being way more power hungry I settled on the Motif and have been really happy with it. It blends really well with my Theos, and I'm sure the EM-ESLs would work well with it too.

 

[cyniclaus]

Thanks; so far it sounds like my concern and the additional expense of the electrostat center are justified. I'm still curious as to the difference between the motif and the older matinee. If I can pick up a "factory refreshed" Matinee at the same price as a used Motif, I wonder which would be the way to go?

I'm also facing this dilemma with the mains; the discontinued Vistas seem to be selling at about the same price as the new EM-ESLs. I read a comparison where the EM-ESLs handily outperformed the Aerius (which I believe used an older electrostat panel design).

Just going by specs the Vista seems nearly identical to the new EM-ESL, only a bit larger and heavier. All else being equal which one would you choose - Vista or EM-ESL?

 

[tsv_1]

I would be skeptical of any factory refresh offers... at a minimum, contact Martin Logan directly and ask them if the refresh seller is legit.

As for CC choice, I'm with Hockey... have to assume ESL is the better option (budget permitting). My Logos, while a tad long in the tooth, is staggeringly good.

And welcome to the forum

 

[jprkeller]

...which one would you choose - Vista or EM-ESL?

There are many threads here asking the same questions. EM-ESL or Vista or other ML stat. Use the search tool to get at some of those threads. Also use the search for opinions on various centers (like a Cinema, etc.). I was able to hear the Source, EM-ESL, and Vantage all at the same local BB. I don't think you could go wrong with any of these. To me they all had a great sound but as you move up the "ML food chain" I think you would find the Vista sounding a bit better than the EM-ESL. YMMV but when I compared them, I did anyway. After comparing the Vista/Vantage (both now discontinued) I opted for the Vantage. Ideally of course if you could hear them that would be your best bet.

As for a center I initially was only looking for a new center and not even looking for new speakers when I fell in love with the ML electrostats. Wow, where had they been my whole life? Anyway, I am using an ML Encore for a center (because of price) and not too bad. To me, although better than what I had, it doesn't blend as well as when I heard the Motif, which I will be picking up in a few weeks.

Good luck. Read everything you can on this forum. It is a great place to find out answers to your questions. And you will find lots and lots of different opinions. Best, Jim

 

[|Tch0rT|]

I'm still curious as to the difference between the motif and the older matinee. If I can pick up a "factory refreshed" Matinee at the same price as a used Motif, I wonder which would be the way to go?

The Motif uses the XStat panel like the EM-ESL, Vista, and Theos (among others). The Matinee uses the CLS Gen 2 panel like the Source, Aeon I, and Ascent I (among others).

 

[cyniclaus]

First off, thanks to everyone who replied so far...looks like I will soon be the proud owner of a set of open box (store demo) Vantages with a Motif center (going to pick them up tomorrow)

Here's my question: Since I'm going with true electrostatic mains and center, would it be worth it to get electrostatic L/R surrounds as well, or should I just settle for the EM-FX2s?

Due to my narrowish room, the surrounds would have to be either wall-mountable or able to be placed right up against the wall without great sonic detriment. I would not be opposed to buying a discontinued model, possibly used, such as the Frescos, but wanted to get advice on what might be feasible, effective, and the best use of money.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[jmschnur]

I have vantage and stage. I have older NHT dipoles for surrounds placed high at the sides of the couch on the wall. Audyssey xt 32 blends the system quite well. I am sure your proposed pprosch will work as well.

 

[cyniclaus]

I'm really struggling here. I honestly use the room more for movies than for music, but I have really been getting into the amazing experience of well-mixed, high quality multichannel music, such as the DVD-As of Hotel California or Queen's The Game, or the Alan Parsons Quadraphonic mix of Dark Side of the Moon. I can only imagine how good these recordings might sound with all five channels having that electrostatic clarity and definition!

However, using electrostats as side surrounds would probably greatly over-localize the sound for films and using any direct radiating speakers there goes against Audyssey and THX recommendations (and I have a THX Ultra2 receiver).

Anybody have thoughts? Maybe the compromise is to get some high quality, acoustically matched (but non-electrostatic) direct radiators like the Motion 4s as the side surrounds, mount them a couple of feet above the seating area, and then use the mounting brackets to adjust them... i.e. tilt them directly at the seating for multichannel music, and overhead for a more diffuse sound when watching movies.

Or I could just use the non-directional FX2s and listen to DVD-A in THX Music mode, hoping the processor gets the localization right.

 

[jmschnur]

Non electrostatic dipoles do work for surrounds.

 

[cyniclaus]

Non electrostatic dipoles do work for surrounds.

I realize this; but my problem is I am torn between the need for dipole surrounds for Home Theater use and monopole surrounds for multichannel music (and for clarity in general).

I guess what I'm really asking of the forum members is :

1. Those who are using a wall-mounted electrostat or planar as their side surround, how that is working out for you... i.e. how badly, if at all, does it compromise 5.1 or 7.1 movie performance? Or if you considered using one but decided not to, then why?

2. If I want to go that route, which wall-mountable electrostat or planar would best complement the Vantage/Motif combo and be available (used if necessary) for about $1000 each or less?