Double one, half the other = Equal.
Isn't that what Georg Ohm said? I think he was in law enforcement.
Isn't that what Georg Ohm said? I think he was in law enforcement.
Power Cords for M/L 13a B212 Make a difference ?
- Thread starter FruitloopSR
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Yeah, V= IR
amey01
Well-known member
More voltage = good
Less amps = good
I think we all understand the formula - but I'm not seeing anything equal here....... Besides - we were referring to larger cables required for more current delivery. If my current requirement is half what yours is (by nature of my power utility), I must be winning (given the same cables in use)!
So just by being in Australia, you are effectively getting cables 3.1415..... times wider gauge! Funny how nobody remarks how much better audio systems sound in Australia.
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amey01
Well-known member
Except that any halfway decent amp has a cap-bank which compensates for this about 100x times over.
240V @ 10A = 120V @ 20A
It's the same amount of energy per second flowing through the wire.
The pluses for 240V are that at 240V it's easier for a motor to start, and there is less voltage drop along a length of wire.
Re wire diameter, yes, it would appear that the wire used in Australia is a larger diameter - which I always like! It's about .25mm larger, which would allow a few Amps more to flow, which makes the circuit breaker the limiting part of the circuit.
And as to why it sounds better in Australia, being upside down all the blood has rushed to your head and blocked your ears.
As to why I think it sounds better in the States, it's because all the blood has settled in my feet so I'm a bit light headed and will believe anything sounds good! 
Have another slice of π on me!
Ahhhh, I hope I'm not disappointing you by agreeing with you, but again, the only time I've ever heard any improvement is when an insufficiently sized wire was used. I can specifically refer to when I bought a Krell amp that was a display model and was given a 10A power cable and didn't know it was the wrong cable at the time. I was chasing in circles in trying to squelch some distortion at high listening levels. It was solved once I replaced the power cable with a 20A one to match the dedicated circuit. The 10A cable was choking the delivery. And to be clear, we are not talking about something that only gifted people would hear, it's easily demonstrable. When I metered the Current flow from the outlet, the amplifier was drawing 3-1/2 Amps average and almost 8 Amps peak, and that's only driving one channel out of five. That 10A cable was for a Krell CD player, so it was the right brand, just the wrong gauge.
I'm very practical about this audio obsession. If it's really difficult to hear a difference, then it's not something I need.
amey01
Well-known member
But less amps --- that is the key when talking about gauge / wire quality.
That's my point.......Same energy with less amps. Like doubling the gauge. Bingo! Winning!
And as to why it sounds better in Australia, being upside down all the blood has rushed to your head and blocked your ears.
HAHA. Another pi (and another wine) for sure.......see "Cheese and wine thread"
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amey01
Well-known member
I never thought I was disagreeing with you.
I find that really odd - nobody (let alone a high-end amp manufacturer) would sell a 5A cable here - in fact I think it would be downright illegal.
Couldn't agree more! Especially if it costs a lot of money. Even if there is a difference.......Geez......just spend your money on a real upgrade, like a new amp or better speakers or whatever......
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JLasher22443
Well-known member
So basically no real answers just jokes and skeptics. LOL Hence why I'm going to do the blind test myself. I'm not trying to spend thousands of dollars on a PS Audio Power Plant 15 or 20, Or the Shunyata Research Hydra or Denali I've been looking at. Was even considering an Isotek EVO3 Nova but for that much money I could use it to purchase another piece of gear I need like a New Processor. I'm thinking after this weekend I'm going to be plugging everything into the wall directly and the free Black Cords will be just fine. Thanks!
Hear Here
Well-known member
It seems that US audiophiles are far more vocal about the grottiness of their low-voltage power supplies that you (Aus) or us (UK), so I think the basic answer is Yes. I believe that 230-240 volt supplies are more suitable than half that voltage - the latter requiring twice the current.
I have an Isotek mains filter and frankly there's no audible difference between connected direct to the wall socket or via the Isotek. I think (though far from certain) that there's a small benefit in using better quality cables than the ones supplied, but only that a screen and drain are more effective in protecting any sensitive components within the unit from any mains-borne interference - eg Belden 19364.
Cables (all "audiophile" cables) are hugely hyped as their prices bears no resemblance to their cost and we are all brainwashed to believe that paying an extra 10% or so of the price we paid for our new amp or DAC should be earmarked for its mains cable. Frankly b*****ks! £50 for a good DIY power cable or about £75 for a retail one will give your amp or speaker all it needs to maximise its performance.
Belden 19364 mains cable | Hifi Collective
Awaiting incoming!
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JLasher22443
Well-known member
Like I said before I'm a skeptic and will be until I hear it for myself; which should be this weekend. Why this confuses me even more now is because I got into Vinyl. Honestly its the only reason I started looking at power changes in my system.
Take the Sutherland 20/20 for instance that I was looking at. You have an engineer Ron Sutherland who takes power in his phono stage very serious in his designs. He adds 11 stages or RC Filtering in the 20/20 to get rid of or lower the noise floor to get the cleanest power for analog. Now if someone that smart knows that power and reducing the noise floor is key to making something sound great; why can't the same be true for say the Shunyata Research - Delta v2 NR Noise Reducing Power Cable at $900+? Its whole purpose is to reduce the Noise Floor from the wall to your device? Again; notice my question marks at the end of my sentences. LOL
This is why I asked this question; because you have a group of people that just call it snake oil and then engineers that say the opposite. It's like bringing up politics or religion at a BBQ. LMAO!
Take the Sutherland 20/20 for instance that I was looking at. You have an engineer Ron Sutherland who takes power in his phono stage very serious in his designs. He adds 11 stages or RC Filtering in the 20/20 to get rid of or lower the noise floor to get the cleanest power for analog. Now if someone that smart knows that power and reducing the noise floor is key to making something sound great; why can't the same be true for say the Shunyata Research - Delta v2 NR Noise Reducing Power Cable at $900+? Its whole purpose is to reduce the Noise Floor from the wall to your device? Again; notice my question marks at the end of my sentences. LOL
This is why I asked this question; because you have a group of people that just call it snake oil and then engineers that say the opposite. It's like bringing up politics or religion at a BBQ. LMAO!
I recently replaced all the power cables in my system with these just for the heck of it:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034056390.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2dbd4c4dQ9cxDA
Very low price and certainly look and feel very sturdy and well-built. Maybe you can buy a couple and compare with the much more expensive name-brand cables.
I didn't really feel a noticeable difference but I do feel better since they're thick and hefty
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034056390.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2dbd4c4dQ9cxDA
Very low price and certainly look and feel very sturdy and well-built. Maybe you can buy a couple and compare with the much more expensive name-brand cables.
I didn't really feel a noticeable difference but I do feel better since they're thick and hefty
Providing enough power is a separate issue from reducing noise.
With that said, reducing noise from the AC power source going INTO a device needing the most amount of gain seems like a good idea to me. As to there actually being a benefit, I believe reducing noise where there is noise is a benefit. How much is that worth? More noise = more desire to $pend what it takes to eliminate it, I know I would if that were a problem in my house. There are ways other than relying on the power cable to reduce the noise for a single component and would end up benefitting everything else in the system, or possibly the house.
There are two reasons I make my own power cables:
I use the wire I want.
The connectors are rated for the gauge wire I use, and the IEC connector has a strong "bite" for a great connection. (ok, three reasons)
With that said, reducing noise from the AC power source going INTO a device needing the most amount of gain seems like a good idea to me. As to there actually being a benefit, I believe reducing noise where there is noise is a benefit. How much is that worth? More noise = more desire to $pend what it takes to eliminate it, I know I would if that were a problem in my house. There are ways other than relying on the power cable to reduce the noise for a single component and would end up benefitting everything else in the system, or possibly the house.
There are two reasons I make my own power cables:
I use the wire I want.
The connectors are rated for the gauge wire I use, and the IEC connector has a strong "bite" for a great connection. (ok, three reasons)
amey01
Well-known member
Shows the sobreity with which this topic deserves
[that was a joke too]Not saying power cables don't make a difference - but from my perspective, ^^^^^^^^^^ this is the salient point.
If you're going to do something like "spend 10% of your budget on power cables", you would do far better to simply increase your budget on equipment by 10%. I would almost bet to my last breath on it.
Reminds me of guys that spend a lot on their Honda Civics making them look fast, when they could have just spent that money on buying a faster car.Shows the sobreity with which this topic deserves
Not saying power cables don't make a difference - but from my perspective, ^^^^^^^^^^ this is the salient point.
If you're going to do something like "spend 10% of your budget on power cables", you would do far better to simply increase your budget on equipment by 10%. I would almost bet to my last breath on it.
Hear Here
Well-known member
No, it's more like the Honda Civic guy chromium plating the underside of his car. It doesn't go faster and it doesn't even look better either!
Hear Here
Well-known member
I recently replaced all the power cables in my system with these just for the heck of it:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034056390.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2dbd4c4dQ9cxDA
Very low price and certainly look and feel very sturdy and well-built. Maybe you can buy a couple and compare with the much more expensive name-brand cables.
I didn't really feel a noticeable difference but I do feel better since they're thick and hefty
The cable looks OK although how well it's made and whether it is screened is unknown. I bought a few Chinese IEC plugs looking like those a while back, but while fitting the first to Belden's screened 19364 cable I realised they were badly constructed compared with the well-known brand they imitate. I considered them dangerous and scrapped them. They didn't have the required CE mark for legal use in EU.
Speedskater
Well-known member
OK, so here is the difference. Twice the AC line voltage means one half the amperage. In power line circuits, noise is current rather than voltage, so there is less noise current. But any well designed hi-fi product well be able to deal with it, so the sound quality will remain the same.
JLasher22443
Well-known member
Shows the sobreity with which this topic deserves
Not saying power cables don't make a difference - but from my perspective, ^^^^^^^^^^ this is the salient point.
If you're going to do something like "spend 10% of your budget on power cables", you would do far better to simply increase your budget on equipment by 10%. I would almost bet to my last breath on it.
So I just realized amey01; you own the Shunyata Hydra Power Conditioner? Why did you spend the extra money on it for power conditioning instead of say a cheaper Panamax or Furman or even a Nordost QB8 or Shunyata Venom? If you remember you were one of the reasons I did not spend thousands on a streamer and went with the Chord and Mac Mini; so I take what a lot of you more experienced users here say Seriously in my researching. So why the Hydra? Isn’t that like $2k to $5k?
JLasher22443
Well-known member
Again a skeptic here talking but doesn’t that seem the same as what we are talking about. If the Honda Civic is a standard cheap black power cord that comes with the units for free; then a Nordost or Shunyata would be the Mercedes S500 or BMW M5 with its higher price point?
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