Obsessive hobbies....

[RCHeliGuy]

Looks like I'm about to give my 4090 a bit of a work out.
Nearly 8Mp per eye resolution, 35ppd.

It's not a perfect headset, but I think I've done all my homework and I'm hoping I enjoy it.

 

[ttocs]

Looks like I'm about to give my 4090 a bit of a work out.
Nearly 8Mp per eye resolution, 35ppd.

It's not a perfect headset, but I think I've done all my homework and I'm hoping I enjoy it.

View attachment 23820

I'm running your image through the computer they used in "No Way Out" to try to get the Order Number so I can change the delivery address to my house! Even in 1987 that computer did things that today's computers still cannot do.

 

[Robert D]

Looks like I'm about to give my 4090 a bit of a work out.
Nearly 8Mp per eye resolution, 35ppd.

It's not a perfect headset, but I think I've done all my homework and I'm hoping I enjoy it.

View attachment 23820

Haven't heard of that company. Must be relatively new? Sounds good.

 

[Robert D]

https://varjo.com/products/aero/
So is this wireless? It doesn't say. I guess it doesn't need light houses to track, traking is on the headset?

Should be exciting. It sounds lightweight, much lighter than my HTC Vive. The weight of mine sucks, its hot, and I hate the wire.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I wouldn't use anything without light houses at this point.

I've tried inside out tracking systems and others have as well. I get tracking failures with my motion sim rig. In rally I would be bouncing around looking into a corner and WMR in it's infinite wisdom would decide I was looking front and recenter me about 90 degrees to the side causing me to crash.

Even the new Meta Quest Pro has tracking issues with motion systems. The earlier Rift CV1 with cameras could be made to work well with a motion rig.

I will continue to use my base stations and Index controllers with this headset.
On the downside, it doesn't have headphones. I ordered a set of Sure 215 Pro ear buds with 37dB of isolation. They have a low enough impedance that they won't require an inline amplifier.

The Sure series of ear buds come in 1, 2, 3, and 4 driver models. They are all over the map for impedance so some of them can be driven without additional amplification and others require an amp. They are from 9 ohm to 32 ohm and 107 to 114 SPL. I'm hopeful that the 215's will be adequate for gaming. I wouldn't use them for critical listening. The sound isolation is a bonus.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

So is this wireless? It doesn't say. I guess it doesn't need light houses to track, traking is on the headset?

Should be exciting. It sounds lightweight, much lighter than my HTC Vive. The weight of mine sucks, its hot, and I hate the wire.

It's not wireless, but it is supposed to be extremely comfortable for extended periods.
The adjustable support that goes across the top of your head and counterweight at the back are supposed to make it so you don't need much pressure on your face gasket. I have accounts from a number of people that it is the most comfortable headset they have ever worn and it remains comfortable for many hours at a time.

The aspheric lenses are supposed to be clear and sharp without the glare and other issues fresnel lenses cause. The view is supposed to be extremely comfortable to your eyes and non-fatiguing.

When you first put them on they automatically measure your eyes and adjust the IPD with motors.

Importantly they have very accurate depth of field like the Oculus and Index headsets so you can naturally focus where you expect to focus.

I had serious issues with the Reverb G2 gauging depth in corners. It disoriented me. The upcoming Pimax Crystal is supposed to be much worse. In fact many people complained that everything in the distance appeared blurred. By comparison with the Index I felt like everything was correct and I could gauge corners much better.

On paper the Pimax Crystal looks very impressive and "should" be a better headset than the Aero. However the swappable lenses are a bust. The smaller DOF high PPD lenses made people nauseous. The wider DOF lenses had focus issues which lets you know they have not got their aspheric lens geometry right. The stand alone functionality isn't working. The eye tracking hasn't been started. The firmware for the hand controllers wasn't ready for CES. They just got the inside out tracking working, but the odds of them doing better than MS or Meta are extremely slim. They have steam lighthouse tracking available as a tack on, but it runs on separate batteries and seems like a poor solution. Pimax are known to be less comfortable than other headsets as well with many people having to modify them to get them comforable.

 

[Robert D]

So the Aero will run with the same lighthouses we use for Steam VR? I still just use the 1st gen Vive and all of its hardware. I can't remember, does the Index use the 2nd gen HTC lighthouses, or do they have their own proprietary? I think you'll be using the new headset with the same lighthouses you're using with your Index?

It's great if all of these headsets work with the same lighthouses. It's good to see. All I can say is that the old gen 1 lighthouses I use work flawlessly for me. I've never had any tracking issues. I must admit though that ive not played on it for a long time. My Steam library is huge and I spend all of my time now just playing standard games.

Is there any big difference in performance between the gen 1 lighthouses I use and the newest ones used now? I want to keep my eye on the Aero. Maybe I will try it out. Will it run on an old gtx 1080ti? I have a 2nd vr pc in my basement that I don't use much and so it's hardware is older. My main pc uses a 3080ti.

I wonder, how heavy and cumbersome is the cable wire for the Aero? My 1st gen HTC Vive is kinda heavy.

So you ordered some other headphones to use instead of the ones that ship with the Aero? I'm like you. I use some other headphones with my Vive because the stock headphones just don't cut it. Seems like audio plays 2nd fiddle for VR companies.

It's my hope that headsets like the Aero will usher in more comfortable game play and that there will be more and more titles. Perhaps one day VR gaming will be mainstream. It's great that the Aero is lighter weight and balanced fore and aft.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

The 1st Gen lighthouses should still work. I have the 2nd Gen lighthouses that came with my Index kit along with Index hand controllers.

The 2nd Gen are more efficient, have fewer moving parts, don't require connecting by usb to pair and can handle a larger play space 23' x 23' with just two base stations. I think the 2nd Gen are a bit more accurate or have slightly less latency because it only takes a single pass rather than two passes to register a position.

To be clear the Aero is still a stop gap. The Index is still better in a few ways. Also it will take everything my 4090 has to run the Aero well. The Aero does not currently offer reprojection which means you have to hold a stable speed with it that is high enough not to get nausea.

I'm really hoping to have the reaction this guy did.

 

[Robert D]

I'm assuming no more screen door effect! So sounds like I'd need at least my 3080ti to run that headset.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I'm assuming no more screen door effect! So sounds like I'd need at least my 3080ti to run that headset.

Absolutely no screen door, absolute clarity, 99% sRGB color gamut, with very bright illumination.

For non-sim games your 3080Ti should handle it.

I'm hearing that even my i9-13900K & 4090 will need a lot of tweaking to work well in DCS, ACC, MSFS. They are telling me 60-68 fps in DCS with my system, but are also saying there is no flickering and it still looks good. I guess I'll find out.

 

[Robert D]

Absolutely no screen door, absolute clarity, 99% sRGB color gamut, with very bright illumination.

For non-sim games your 3080Ti should handle it.

I'm hearing that even my i9-13900K & 4090 will need a lot of tweaking to work well in DCS, ACC, MSFS. They are telling me 60-68 fps in DCS with my system, but are also saying there is no flickering and it still looks good. I guess I'll find out.

Yeah, let us know how the card performs. Some games/ programs don't seem to run great with the new cards like the 4090. I've seen reports of that on some games I've been playing. Maybe it's just a matter of improving the driver.

Has the 4090 performed as well as it should on games you've played already? It seems like my 3080ti was like that when it first came out new a couple of years ago. I plan on waiting for the 5000 series. Hopefully by then they will be easier to purchase. When I got my card I had to enter a lottery. I got lucky and won. Microcenter didn't even get any 3090 in that day. I ended up having to.pay $1900 for the 3080ti. Things are better than that now.

I've been buying every other series, so set up now for the 5000. Odd numbers.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

The 4090 has performed very well on the VR titles I'm using and as you suspected the performance has been improving with the driver updates.

The most recent Jan 24th driver was adding about 2-4 fps in MSFS according to some.

DCS is tough because it tends to be CPU bottlenecked, but many of the other titles are working beautifully. With my Index I can run Dirt Rally 2.0 in full Ultra graphics. The same for iRacing.

I'm hearing that for MSFS and DCS that the Aero with 4090 is getting about 60-70 fps with high graphics settings. One guy had 130% super sampling. They claim that there is no stuttering and it looks very smooth in flight.

For iRacing and Dirt Rally 2.0 I would want 90fps.
There is still a lot of optimization coming for the Aero. The eye tracking allows for foveated rendering around the area you area looking. They have started to get that to work, but it's not optimized yet.

Right now getting a 4090 is hard unless you are willing to pay over $2,000 for one and the Aero ends up over $2,000 depending on your local taxes. So it's a steep combination.

 

[Robert D]

The 4090 has performed very well on the VR titles I'm using and as you suspected the performance has been improving with the driver updates.

The most recent Jan 24th driver was adding about 2-4 fps in MSFS according to some.

DCS is tough because it tends to be CPU bottlenecked, but many of the other titles are working beautifully. With my Index I can run Dirt Rally 2.0 in full Ultra graphics. The same for iRacing.

I'm hearing that for MSFS and DCS that the Aero with 4090 is getting about 60-70 fps with high graphics settings. One guy had 130% super sampling. They claim that there is no stuttering and it looks very smooth in flight.

For iRacing and Dirt Rally 2.0 I would want 90fps.
There is still a lot of optimization coming for the Aero. The eye tracking allows for foveated rendering around the area you area looking. They have started to get that to work, but it's not optimized yet.

Right now getting a 4090 is hard unless you are willing to pay over $2,000 for one and the Aero ends up over $2,000 depending on your local taxes. So it's a steep combination.

Pricing on the 4000 series then is similar to what I paid for the 3000, maybe a little but lower now. Inflation still terrible then.

Good that they are doing well with the drivers. I think you upgraded from the 2000 series? It makes the most sense I think to just skip 1 gen at this point, because if I did get a 4090, my CPU would be a bottleneck. Better to upgrade the whole PC.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Save your money.

Being a VR enthusiast is like chasing the dragon. It's both worse and better then audio. It's worse because everything is in a state of flux and many things are obsolete every two years. It's better because there actually are massive jumps in performance and abilities. We are still likely 5 years away from reaching systems that are powerful enough to drive headsets that don't exist yet with more field of view, more resolution and higher frame rates and eventually in smaller lighter form factors.

Speaking of audio, I've got the Sure 215 earbuds and the HD 569 over head phones and I'll likely try to 3D print something to support Index off ear speakers.
The 215 earbuds are more for live music mixing and have isolation, but are light and you forget you are wearing them. The HD 569's are still efficient enough to run off the Aero's jack without amplification and they do sound better then the earbuds, but they aren't audiophile quality and they will get hot if I wear them in a sim. However this is more like having a subwoofer for movie effects rather than for sound accuracy, so these headphones may be fine for in game use. I won't know until the headset gets here.

Anyway find a toilet and pour money into it

 

[Robert D]

Save your money.

Being a VR enthusiast is like chasing the dragon. It's both worse and better then audio. It's worse because everything is in a state of flux and many things are obsolete every two years. It's better because there actually are massive jumps in performance and abilities. We are still likely 5 years away from reaching systems that are powerful enough to drive headsets that don't exist yet with more field of view, more resolution and higher frame rates and eventually in smaller lighter form factors.

Speaking of audio, I've got the Sure 215 earbuds and the HD 569 over head phones and I'll likely try to 3D print something to support Index off ear speakers.
The 215 earbuds are more for live music mixing and have isolation, but are light and you forget you are wearing them. The HD 569's are still efficient enough to run off the Aero's jack without amplification and they do sound better then the earbuds, but they aren't audiophile quality and they will get hot if I wear them in a sim. However this is more like having a subwoofer for movie effects rather than for sound accuracy, so these headphones may be fine for in game use. I won't know until the headset gets here.

Anyway find a toilet and pour money into it

Yeah, I will most likely just keep using my old HTC Vive for the years to come, and maybe one day once a headset comes out that looks absolutely incredible I will get that. Right now I play standard games in my study, and could use it for VR too really. The space is probably big enough. I play VR in the basement in a much bigger room. So I have to spend money on two gaming pcs. That sucks. In the future we hope to build another home, and I will set up a big basement room there for just gaming, and use just one pc for everything. Perhaps by then there will be a VR headset that does everything I dream of.

It might be nice to game on the home theater too, have one media room that does everything, but then im afraid i will end up half assing everything when I do that. It would be cool though to game on a big projector screen and have an awesome Dolby Atmos system with ML speakers.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Just killing myself over here...

So I got the Aero and it's working really well. I finally learned how to properly install my Sure 215 ear buds. Shazzam! The sound finally came in and they had muddy bass and limited high range, but no more tinny anemic sound.

So I ordered a pair of Sure SE846 Gen 2's. I've never had a set of $1,000 ear buds. Granted these are 4 driver ear buds and Sure now has two pair of electrostatic ear buds that cost up to $3,000.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I'm really liking the Sure 846 Gen 2 in ear phones. Great bass, very smooth midrange and good highs. They are highly efficient and have good dynamic range. I could run them as low as 16% in game plugged into the Aero and still hear what I needed, but about 36% was good all around and didn't deafen me.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Regarding the Aero VR utube video. Pretty cool. I really liked the part where the user is shooting people. So clear and graphic. So timely and appropriate in our "current" reality.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Regarding the Aero VR utube video. Pretty cool. I really liked the part where the user is shooting people. So real and graphic. Just what we need.

They were zombies in this video, but to be fair there are plenty of very graphic games where you are killing people.

Looking in my game list and this is not a complete listing there are a lot that involve shooting at something.

In bold are where I spend most of my time.

Space Pirate Trainer - killing flying robots
Robo Recall - killing robots
In Death - Killing the undead ( zombies, banshees, knights, archers )
Super Hot - Killing monochromatic silhouettes of people.
I Expect You will Die - escape room puzzles
The Climb - rock climbing
VR Regatta - Sailing
Lone Echo - Solving problems on a space station
iRacing - car racing
Dirt Rally - car racing
Project Cars 2 - car racing
Assetto Corsa - car racing
Assetto Corsa Competizione - car racing
kartkraft - kart racing
nolimits2 - roller coasters
MSFS 2020 - flying aircraft
DCS (Digital Combat Systems) - Aerial battles with people in military aircraft
Eve Valkyrie (rip) - Space combat like Battlestar Galactica
Elite Dangerous - Full virtual space fairing ecosystem
Star Wars Squadrons - Space combat

 

[Robert D]

They were zombies in this video, but to be fair there are plenty of very graphic games where you are killing people.

Looking in my game list and this is not a complete listing there are a lot that involve shooting at something.

In bold are where I spend most of my time.

Space Pirate Trainer - killing flying robots
Robo Recall - killing robots
In Death - Killing the undead ( zombies, banshees, knights, archers )
Super Hot - Killing monochromatic silhouettes of people.
I Expect You will Die - escape room puzzles
The Climb - rock climbing
VR Regatta - Sailing
Lone Echo - Solving problems on a space station
iRacing - car racing
Dirt Rally - car racing
Project Cars 2 - car racing
Assetto Corsa - car racing
Assetto Corsa Competizione - car racing
kartkraft - kart racing
nolimits2 - roller coasters
MSFS 2020 - flying aircraft
DCS (Digital Combat Systems) - Aerial battles with people in military aircraft
Eve Valkyrie (rip) - Space combat like Battlestar Galactica
Elite Dangerous - Full virtual space fairing ecosystem
Star Wars Squadrons - Space combat

You don't have to justify yourself. You are a responsible adult and can play whatever game you want. Playing a game doesn't mean you're going to carry out those acts in the real world.