New old CLS from Poland

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Hi,

I'm new owner Martin Logan CLS. I use it with rest of my system:
small Krell amplifier, Restec Vector pre, Yamaha PX3 turntable and my DIY DAC on TDA1541 with two valve analog stages.

20220428_204359b.jpg


I restored wooden frame. It's rosewood and now looks better than on picture with my system.

:rolleyes:
20220503_223105.jpg
20220503_171303.jpg
20220503_171604.jpg
20220503_171537.jpg
20220503_171521.jpg


I cleaned stators with shower and... I'm here becouse of problems :rolleyes:

I'm from Poland and big, old CLS are little bit exotic here.


Marcin
 

JonFo

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
308
Location
Big Canoe, GA
Hi Marcin, Welcome to our corner of the Internet.

That is a beautiful wood refinish, well done!

Tell us more about the panel issues. What was the condition before the shower, did both panels sound the same ? Was there a specific problem?

And after, what are the symptoms of the 'problems'?
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Hi @JonFo

Thank you.

Before cleaning both panels play the same, but for me to dark and not enought analitics with low instrument separation. I used Infinity RS2.5, Kappa 8 and Kappa 9 and I like high and shining high tones.
After cleaning everything is better, everything like should be with mids and highs, but bass...


here I describe problem. When I get volume up bass starts buzzing.
 

RAH

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
761
Reaction score
26
Location
Karachi, Pakistan
This is very very important Ensure white block connector attachment to electronics module has been done with red dot on white block connector side facing upward. Ensure this is done right for both panels.

Use three pointed feet for one speaker.

Use spades to connect to speaker. Banana terminals May have become loose. Ensure all speaker cable connections are tight.

Last , speaker floor placement can increase or decrease buzzing.

I have the same speakers with the same buzzing problem. Most of the problem went away when red dot was facing upward on block connector.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Thanks @RAH ,
All wires are like should be. Orange dot up, I done photo before disconnected and on my block connector was color cable description... in germany. Probably were in reromanus service.

It's sounds like resonance, like stators play with frame... but before I dissasembled it and cleaned you can't hear any buzzing sounds from bass section.

What goes wrong ??
 

RAH

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
761
Reaction score
26
Location
Karachi, Pakistan
Thanks @RAH ,
All wires are like should be. Orange dot up, I done photo before disconnected and on my block connector was color cable description... in germany. Probably were in reromanus service.

It's sounds like resonance, like stators play with frame... but before I dissasembled it and cleaned you can't hear any buzzing sounds from bass section.

What goes wrong ??
What went wrong?

I some years ago rinsed with neutral tap water CLS. One minute per side and no solvents. My CLS had no buzzing for 1 to 1.5 years.

You may still have original panels for CLS. Now they are fully depreciated. I guess you accelerated their depreciation when the old panels were give a thorough rinse with water. Perhaps with warm water and solvent?

In my CLS the bass panel outer surface has detached from Mylar.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Perhaps with warm water and solvent?
Water was neutral, to cold for shower. No solvent or other chemicals.

But for me is strange why both panels give the same noise, from the same side, on the same volume, in the same frequences.
 

Don Camillo

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
47
Reaction score
4
Location
Europe
That indeed is a beautiful finished colour!

I hope you get your answers soon, and I am curious too!...
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
That indeed is a beautiful finished colour!
Thanks, It's natural colour of rosewood from Martin Logan. I don't change colour and I don't know why that beautiful wood was covered by glos coating.
I only use oscillating grinder with sandpaper, first 80 and 240 to finish. I removed old glos coatting.
20220502_155523.jpg

This orange is orginal, on back is grinded.

After that I only put natural oil with natural wax, without any colorization. It's beauty from rosewood.
20220503_125723.jpg

On first plan after oil and wax. On back before oil and wax aplication.

I removed panels from frame first to get natural rosewood, after that I decided to shower it.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Maybe problem is with moisture between stator and foil.

I power off my system and now, after few hours started play music. Volume was on the same level but CLS play quieter, the same like before shower. Bass was almost normal without distorsion. I play louder and after few bass hits music level rise and start buzzing.

I will observe it tomorow. Today I want change capacitors from Solen and Martin Logan to Auricap XO. On all aplication were big progres in sound after change.
 

Don Camillo

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
47
Reaction score
4
Location
Europe
Thanks, It's natural colour of rosewood from Martin Logan. I don't change colour and I don't know why that beautiful wood was covered by glos coating.
I only use oscillating grinder with sandpaper, first 80 and 240 to finish. I removed old glos coatting. View attachment 22706
This orange is orginal, on back is grinded.

After that I only put natural oil with natural wax, without any colorization. It's beauty from rosewood.
View attachment 22707
On first plan after oil and wax. On back before oil and wax aplication.

I removed panels from frame first to get natural rosewood, after that I decided to shower it.
Very nice!

I hope you can fix the problem!
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
I hope you can fix the problem!
I hope too, but... If not, I send it to Germany for renew panel. Company with 30 years experience with electrostatics takes for big like Monolith or CLS 1250 euro for pair, smaller 1000 euro. They change foil, meseure and adjust panels. After that they give two years quarantie. Now, when I know how good CLS sounds and with my wood I know that it's worth this price.
 

Don Camillo

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
47
Reaction score
4
Location
Europe
I hope too, but... If not, I send it to Germany for renew panel. Company with 30 years experience with electrostatics takes for big like Monolith or CLS 1250 euro for pair, smaller 1000 euro. They change foil, meseure and adjust panels. After that they give two years quarantie. Now, when I know how good CLS sounds and with my wood I know that it's worth this price.
Is that DIS or something?
1250,- is affordable. I might do the same if I cant make my CLS work right.
I know they also do it for the Apogee Ribbon speakers. However its not exactly the same as the ribbons that the Apogee pro installer uses, named Graz.
But its a lot cheaper. The purists however do prefer the pro versions.

I dont know if its the same with the Martin Logan foils but I think so.

Maybe people here have experience with them.

With my Apogee Duetta ribbon speakers I also have the Buzz sound when playing a bit louder in the bass. There its a layer between the ribbon and the frame that needs to be done professionally with complete new ribbon foils.

Now I have a CLS pair too that need to be rebuild...

But I dont know which sounds better when both are in good condition.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Is that DIS or something?
I thoght about this company:

reromanus

I heard CLS few month after refoil in this company and was incredible good sounding... but owner wanted 4000 euro. I bought old one few times cheaper and if panel need to be renew, I wll send it to this company.
 

Don Camillo

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
47
Reaction score
4
Location
Europe
Ah okay, thanks! I didnt know that company. But it seems like he knows what he is doing.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
I found resonance source.

I take flashlight and start observe panels when plays... and I found this.

20220505_142749.jpg


loosened tape on back side of panel. In both the same. When I push it tape stay glued but because of front panel I can't repair this.

I have nothing to lose. I can play music with fart on bass or send it to repair. Before I send it I try to repair but I need to take out front panel. After that I want to use rubber roller with little heat on glue and stay with some load on this place. After that put panel back and... we will see.

I read on MLO that people opened smaller panels, CSL should open the same.

I didnt know that company. But it seems like he knows what he is doing.
Yes, they are profesionalist, they have many video from work, like here:

 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,796
Reaction score
388
Location
Ohio
Only to US, but I heard panel with foil from Germany, sounds very good. Better than other CLS what I heard before.
One option, you could have Martin Logan send them to someone in the US and then have that person send it overseas to you.

Certainly cheaper to have the people in Germany work on.
 

JonFo

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
308
Location
Big Canoe, GA
Another option is adding a crossover and using a separate driver & cabinet for woofer / sub duties. That would move the frequencies causing the buzz out of the range of the panel.

Several CLS owners used a line-array of 5x 10" drivers crossed over at 120 or 150Hz with great results.
Get a crossover that has a 24dB/octave slope.
 
Top