Surprised it has not been posted yet, but Magnepan will be replacing the 20.1
http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-listen-magnepan-s-new-flagship-207-loudspeaker
http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-listen-magnepan-s-new-flagship-207-loudspeaker
New Magnepan 20.7
- Thread starter longhorn
- Start date
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TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
I've never had the pleasure of hearing the 20.1. Bet they sound awesome.
beek
Well-known member
They are ok But,
I would rather spend the same money on ML'S
I would rather spend the same money on ML'S
I have heard the 20.1. They are a speaker that I still think about 5 years post audition. If soundstage and space is your bag you gotta have a listen. If you like uber detail then you may not like them. The fact that they have apparently made them better makes me nervous since it could make me consider going to have another listen. And that us always dangerous. Akin to an alcoholic just going to the bar. If u know what I mean. 
They are much better than OK, and ML should be worried. The 20.1's sound better in a lot of ways than my Summits; I expect the 20.7's will outperform the Summit X's in certain aspects, and probably for less money. They have an incredible, huge soundstage and a wall-of-sound kind of presentation unlike any other, plus great dynamics.
beek
Well-known member
Guess we all have are own ears I have owned and heard many MG'S since 75 ....
Indeed, everyone's tastes are different. Have you heard the 20.1's? I had a long audition with them a few years ago, driven by massive Audio Research tube amps. They are one of the few speakers I would be happy to switch out for my Summits.
beek
Well-known member
I now have Mmg in the place down south & 1.6 with Mye stands in NY. And the ML"s
Have spent a while with 20.1 also. I am sure the 20.7 will be an improvement over the 20"s esp. Since the drivers are More matched. I like the fact that the quasi units may not delam. I am not trying to start a spitting match here but I have heard alot exotica being in NYC and knowing who I know/knew. Just starting to slow down nowadays cause of age & health. Take Care
User211
Well-known member
I think you will get a better pair of speakers by restoring some Apogees.
Here's some things you could do to get them considerably better than they ever were. Graz says:
"I have been staying out as much as possible the last year as when I chime in it tends to end the chat!!!
KLM = Kapton Low Mass - a "Rolls Royce" grade of the original Kapton specs as used by Apogee. When used without a number this denotes "0" type adhesive on the kapton, coated here in house, an expensive premium chemical grade. I have found this adhesive to be excellent for the bass ribbons, superior to the original construction used by Spiegel/Bloom/Walker/Schuman for their ribbon construction.
KLM5 = Kapton Low Mass, but with the 5th type of adhesive I developed for use primarily with MRTW constructions, again coated in house here. This is a very expensive adhesive, chemically similar but even better. Of course has many of the "0" properties, taken to new levels of tolerance.
KLM2 - worth a mention as it is still the current grade of tweeter-only ribbons offered. This is a good adhesive "2", better than the original 1980's chemistry but completely different. A nice MRTW solution.
Crossovers. The crossovers do not need modification with any of these ribbons as the foil work is absolutely blueprint accurate to the original construction, grade, metal composition/construction of the original foils.
XLM - this is a lighter mass version of the KLM kapton.
Advice. This will read like an advert but xover mods and "extras" will take a back seat to a ribbon upgrade vs a perfect original speaker, by design. This is of course my opinion, some have shared this here. None of this is based on myth - as all ribbon work I have done here for the classic or new Apogee's has been based on sound science and engineering. Cost was never a factor during prototype work - the emphasis was always on getting things right! In order of effect, all imho;-
1) Bass and MRTW ribbons
2) Magnet alignment. More of a joint first place really - tolerances here are equally important to ribbon topology tolerances. If they are not right, then the result will be compromised.
3) Frame bracing. Keep the frames quieter than when made and the sound will be more faithful from the ribbons
4) Stands. Brace work should be complimentary to the bracing of the cases.
5) Settle on a configuration and remove the switch, and solder the entire circuit, at the same time replacing the brass terminals with copper ones - or hard-wire to set leads from the speaker.
6) Inductors. Pot in conductive resin, or replace with potted or foil equivalents, measured from the Inductor - NOT whet is written on it!
7) Capacitors. Upgrades to be heard here - no advice offered, everybody has their favourite cap!!"
Here's some things you could do to get them considerably better than they ever were. Graz says:
"I have been staying out as much as possible the last year as when I chime in it tends to end the chat!!!
KLM = Kapton Low Mass - a "Rolls Royce" grade of the original Kapton specs as used by Apogee. When used without a number this denotes "0" type adhesive on the kapton, coated here in house, an expensive premium chemical grade. I have found this adhesive to be excellent for the bass ribbons, superior to the original construction used by Spiegel/Bloom/Walker/Schuman for their ribbon construction.
KLM5 = Kapton Low Mass, but with the 5th type of adhesive I developed for use primarily with MRTW constructions, again coated in house here. This is a very expensive adhesive, chemically similar but even better. Of course has many of the "0" properties, taken to new levels of tolerance.
KLM2 - worth a mention as it is still the current grade of tweeter-only ribbons offered. This is a good adhesive "2", better than the original 1980's chemistry but completely different. A nice MRTW solution.
Crossovers. The crossovers do not need modification with any of these ribbons as the foil work is absolutely blueprint accurate to the original construction, grade, metal composition/construction of the original foils.
XLM - this is a lighter mass version of the KLM kapton.
Advice. This will read like an advert but xover mods and "extras" will take a back seat to a ribbon upgrade vs a perfect original speaker, by design. This is of course my opinion, some have shared this here. None of this is based on myth - as all ribbon work I have done here for the classic or new Apogee's has been based on sound science and engineering. Cost was never a factor during prototype work - the emphasis was always on getting things right! In order of effect, all imho;-
1) Bass and MRTW ribbons
2) Magnet alignment. More of a joint first place really - tolerances here are equally important to ribbon topology tolerances. If they are not right, then the result will be compromised.
3) Frame bracing. Keep the frames quieter than when made and the sound will be more faithful from the ribbons
4) Stands. Brace work should be complimentary to the bracing of the cases.
5) Settle on a configuration and remove the switch, and solder the entire circuit, at the same time replacing the brass terminals with copper ones - or hard-wire to set leads from the speaker.
6) Inductors. Pot in conductive resin, or replace with potted or foil equivalents, measured from the Inductor - NOT whet is written on it!
7) Capacitors. Upgrades to be heard here - no advice offered, everybody has their favourite cap!!"
beek
Well-known member
Agree, what turns me off is almost no field replacement parts.
Last edited:
User211
Well-known member
You can get pretty much everything from the two US based refurbushers. Bit stuffed for Stage bass panels, though. Graz has never made a replacement for those.
Here's some info on ribbon development.
"The "evolution" of the Duetta/Caliper MRTW (3E) ribbon;-
1) Original USA Apogee 3EKS (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick)
2) Last run USA Apogee 3EKS (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (3 identical width traces)
3) Apogee (Graz) 3EKS (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff!
4) Apogee (Graz) 3EKLM (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) = better grade kapton, better grade kapton glue, glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff! Able to track HF better, very slightly
5) Apogee (Graz) 3EKLM2 (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) = better grade kapton, different chemical grade kapton glue, glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff! Able to track HF better
6) Apogee (Graz) 3EKLM5 (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) = better grade kapton, different even more improved chemical grade kapton glue, glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff! Installer only, or home install for those with my bass for the reason they are the best 3E ribbons made, close to production costs.
XLM 2 and XLM5 variations offered also throughout time , more detail, less warmth, subject to taste in the 3E configuration.
All use the EXACT same foil alloy as per the original company, since 1980."
Hocky
Well-known member
What does Apogee have to do with a new Magnepan? :-\
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
I've not heard the 20.7s, but I did listen to the 3.7s a few weeks ago and was impressed. The only real issue I had with the 3.7s was that they needed to reach a certain volume level to sound their best, as they sounded anemic at lower volumes. Crank 'em up though and wow! No dealership around here has the 20.7s, at least not to my knowledge.
User211
Well-known member
Similar technology. if you like one, you are likely to like the other.
beek
Well-known member
I have spent time with the studio grands tri-amped with Krell mono "s
And chatting with Mr. Bloom an amazing experience.
And chatting with Mr. Bloom an amazing experience.
beek
Well-known member
User211
Well-known member
Ah I did wonder. For Apogee panels, all the parts and easy to replace and the x-overs are easy to work on with one caveat: bass panels must be done by an approved installer. Also, you can only get KLM5 via an installer. Unfortunate because that is significantly better than KLM2. So much so it is essential, really.
Bass panels were sold direct but it became clear it was too difficult for people to do well at home.
beek
Well-known member
Thats what I Love about the ML'S
robertawillisjr
Well-known member
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For argument's sake say you have convinced me, how much are we talking about? Are there any dealers or distributors in the U. S.?
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