New amps on their way

[ralflar]

Jonathan,

With the receiver the music began to fall apart at SPLs around 75dB (C) or even less. Using the CIA stuff I have tried 80s and, briefly, 85s. "Briefly" out of respect for my neighbors because I live in an apartment and had to do this after 8pm. So I don't know how they perform when pushed. All I know is they tempt me to raise the volume a notch, then one more, and another, and it is hard to resist.

Like you I did not like the fact that these amps do not double up from 8 to 4 Ohms. On paper however, the UCD400 modules do. Dusty Vawter basically says that Hypex' spec is 'lab' while CIA's is realistic, see this thread at AudioCircle. How representative of realistic performance are the sales specs of other brands claiming double power @ 4 Ohm?

I neither know nor care. What I am after in technical terms is not power but the ability to provide current to low impedance loads. With ICEpower designs frequency response varies with impedance. With UCD designs it does not. According to the D-200 specs 2 Ohm is the minimum recommended nominal speaker impedance. Which means that they have reserves to handle much lower impedances.

Anyway, today I bought a pair of Rotel RB-1091 ICEpower based mono blocks (500W/1000W into 8Ohm/4Ohm) at the Home Theater Store, to be delivered Thursday. They have a 7 day return policy. (Channel Islands Audio have 30 days.) I will check them against the D-200s, keep the pair I like better, and return the other.

Any bets which ones I'm going to keep?

 

[Joey_V]

Anyway, today I bought a pair of Rotel RB-1091 ICEpower based mono blocks (500W/1000W into 8Ohm/4Ohm) at the Home Theater Store, to be delivered Thursday. They have a 7 day return policy. (Channel Islands Audio have 30 days.) I will check them against the D-200s, keep the pair I like better, and return the other.

Any bets which ones I'm going to keep?

I like shootouts! I pick Rotel!

Let us know who wins... .

 

[lugano]

Any bets which ones I'm going to keep?

The CIA, of course - it's a no-brainer. Having the qualities of PS Audio and NuForce gear without the shortcomings they have and for a very good price is just plain fantastic.

 

[ralflar]

OK, it is 1:1 for now .

A few posts up I wrote about why I chose a Hypex UCD based design over ICEpower so I guess you can say that I am biased towards the D-200s.

OTOH I think I should try to keep on open mind along the lines of the oft quoted "let your ears decide", and try it myself.

NuForce have their very own Class D design, glitches included at no extra charge. AFAIK the PS Audio use ICEpower. I picked Rotel because it is the most accessible (to me) representative of the ICEpower breed. I also like the Rotels' silver-and-black visuals.

 

[ralflar]

The Rotels have been in my system for about 1.5 hours now. It is too early to judge their sonic merits. However, I can comment on build quality and usability.

Tap anywhere on a D-200 surface and the results is a mellow "thud". Do that on the top or side of the RB-1091, and the result is a hollow sounding loud resonance. Even knocking on the front panel sounds clanky.

The Rotel's black and silver looks fabulous in photos. In my system and in my opinion the D-200s look a lot better, though. The D-200s also use less space. See photos.

Sound impressions will follow tomorrow or Saturday.

 

[Joey_V]

Looking at those pics makes me wish I went with the PureAV stuff.... if only for looks (instead of the 3500mk2).

The CIA is probably of better physical build, I wont deny you that... having Rotel myself. But, let your ears and not your eyes decide. Your system with the Rotels (in the pic) look equally stunning in my opinion.

Joey

 

[ralflar]

Joey,

Keep in mind that looks can be deceiving. The Belkin PF60's front plate may look like metal. Alas, it is just convincing looking plastic. Their 7.5kJ surge protection is great, though. They are also quite tweakable as far as switched/unswitched flags and time delays are concerned. What I like most, beside their surge protection ratings and visuals, is the price: I got each for around $220.

Regarding the amp's physical build, the RB-1091s are as "slight" as your 1090 is massive. They are different beasts. IMO the 1091 is on the cheap side.

The CIA D-200s weigh about the same as the 1091 but feel heavier thanks to their solid construction.

The RB-1091s run even cooler than the D-200s. That is a plus for installers. OTOH, I admit that I like the fact that the D-200 heatsink is hot even without a signal, when not "muted". This is due to CIA's use of linear power supplies, and it reminds me of Class A designs.

Anyway, I'll defer initial judgement on the 1091s' sound until tomorrow night at least. Until then I must listen some more. I must also pull the Rotels out and reactivate the CIAs for a cross check.

As of now the only thing I can say is that the D-200 and RB-1091 have similar sonic qualities, despite their very different designs.

Overall, 3:2 for CIA, so far.

 

[ralflar]

I returned the Rotels.

They are probably great for HT. Listened to on their own they are nice amps for stereo, too. However, the D-200s involve me in a way the 1091s can not. They did not call to me from the other room like the D-200s. They do not tie me to the listening chair the same way the D200s do. When I listened to the Rotels I wondered what I was missing. Switching over to the CIAs it was then clear that something had been missing although it was not clear what. Switching back to Rotel and listening to the same record then showed that what had been missing before was now found, but not quite right. This happened all the time. The CIA showed me something which I could then find in the Rotels, too, but not as complete.

The two amps do sound so similar at the surface, but the D-200s let me enjoy the music and unwind. Listening to the 1091s was not as rewarding, nor as relaxing. It is hard to describe. It took about 3 minutes each time I switched from one pair of amps to the other. My acoustic memory does not seem to be very accurate. I'd make a poor reviewer. When pressed I'd say that (a) I'm making all this up subconsciously because the CIAs are cheaper and I could use the 1k price difference towards Vantages etc., or (b) I really tried to like the Rotels but they just left me cold. The D200s sound more natural, are more transparent in the highs without being any brighter, have a more vibrant midrange that seems to load the room more, and a more contoured bass. They have slam and kick and an in-phase-ness the Rotels lack. (c) A bit of both.

Anyway, the D200s stay. I can go back to listening without having to try to be analytical, or feeling guilty for listening to the CIAs when I should be evaluating the Rotels .

 

[Joey_V]

Congrats on the new amps!!

To tell you the truth, I demoed the 1091 vs the 1090 and I preferred the 1090 by a good margin.

Good choice and may you get your VANTAGES!!!

 

[lugano]

Great info and review, ralflar. Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing them.

 

[ralflar]

Thanks. I give a little and receive a lot in return. No, that's not right, I should turn that around: I have learned a lot here, and try to return what I can.

I have a distant cousin who lives in Lugano. From what I have heard it is one very, very nice place.

 

[ralflar]

Congrats on the new amps!!

To tell you the truth, I demoed the 1091 vs the 1090 and I preferred the 1090 by a good margin.

Good choice and may you get your VANTAGES!!!

Joey, I had read your posts re 1090 vs 1091/1092 at htguide.com even before I bought the CIAs. Sibilance was not one of my complaints of the 1091s - your Summits are more revealing than my Aeons, of course - but I think that I do understand why you prefer the 1090s. The 1091s just do not sound "alive" enough.

Now, to take adVantage of available funds to reach the Summit... but that'll be the topic of other threads.

 

[Joey_V]

Joey, I had read your posts re 1090 vs 1091/1092 at htguide.com even before I bought the CIAs. Sibilance was not one of my complaints of the 1091s - your Summits are more revealing than my Aeons, of course - but I think that I do understand why you prefer the 1090s. The 1091s just do not sound "alive" enough.

Now, to take adVantage of available funds to reach the Summit... but that'll be the topic of other threads.

adVantage.... hehehe... love it man!

The reason why the 1091 was a bit sibilant was because I thought they sounded thin in comparison to the 1090... and that brought out whatever sibilance was there out just that bit more.

Good luck with the CIAudio amps... those look the part! As for me, I'm waiting on my new amp coming in 3 days.... so I suppose the two of us have something to celebrate!

Keep the Summit dream alive!

 

[ralflar]

Counting down 3 more days to tubey tunes. Man, I know that feeling of anticipation and impatience. Look forward to the unpacking, the hook up, the first impressions, the refined impressions after 24 hours. You know what I mean. Good luck.

Meanwhile I Summit to my own dreams .

 

[Joey_V]

Meanwhile I Summit to my own dreams .

Hehehehe..... we got a wordsmith here!