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Brad225

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I'm going to see about just repairing the dust cap. I was going to look at getting some higher quality woofer and run them active with DSP, but the amp I was looking at sold and other options are too expensive.

I think I will purchase a new carbon steel frying pan instead lol, the other amplifier alternatives were $600+ in the used market. For now they will have to stay passive.
If cooking is your thing, take a look at Hestan products. They are 1000 layers of Titanium and SS. They heat amazingly even and once heated use much less heat under them. I swear by them.
 
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Brandon Hartwick

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I decided to dig into my storage unit and pulled out 4 vintage Denon 12" subwoofers from my home theater days, I have no idea what model these are and they have no markings. I'm going to bring these home tonight and set them up for fun.

This is totally excessive
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Robert D

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Cool, one the Vette, is that a wrap im guessing? I take my 911 to the track occasionally too but dont have dedicated track tires/wheels. I just have two sets of wheels and tires. One for summer and one for winter/snow. I use some Michelin Sport summer tires on the track and they do ok. I bet those track tires are fun. So do you have a trailer too, and tow it all in? Most of those track tires arent safe on the roads if it happens to rain.

One time at the track we had a good rain and I still went out on the track. Lots of guys were spinning off the track but I managed to stay on and run faster than most of them. I think a lot of it was due to me having all wheel drive and not track tires. Most of the guys would not go out in it.
 

Brandon Hartwick

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Cool, one the Vette, is that a wrap im guessing? I take my 911 to the track occasionally too but dont have dedicated track tires/wheels. I just have two sets of wheels and tires. One for summer and one for winter/snow. I use some Michelin Sport summer tires on the track and they do ok. I bet those track tires are fun. So do you have a trailer too, and tow it all in? Most of those track tires arent safe on the roads if it happens to rain.

One time at the track we had a good rain and I still went out on the track. Lots of guys were spinning off the track but I managed to stay on and run faster than most of them. I think a lot of it was due to me having all wheel drive and not track tires. Most of the guys would not go out in it.
Thanks!

Yes the Vette is wrapped, a number of years ago I had a AWD Mazdaspeed 6 that was painted similar and I really missed how it looked. I helped a local wrap guy come up with the design.

We usually mount up our wheels at our shop before driving to the track. We don't trailer the cars but track tires need to be used cautiously on damp or dirty roads for obvious reasons. Track days in the wet are a lot of fun, I have no doubt the 911 stomped everyone in the wet with good tires and AWD.
 

Robert D

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Thanks!

Yes the Vette is wrapped, a number of years ago I had a AWD Mazdaspeed 6 that was painted similar and I really missed how it looked. I helped a local wrap guy come up with the design.

We usually mount up our wheels at our shop before driving to the track. We don't trailer the cars but track tires need to be used cautiously on damp or dirty roads for obvious reasons. Track days in the wet are a lot of fun, I have no doubt the 911 stomped everyone in the wet with good tires and AWD.
Yes. I go with the PCA,so most of the cars are Porsche. The Caymans were mostly all running off the road. I use Mid Ohio. I've not been to any other yet.
 

twich54

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Yes. I go with the PCA,so most of the cars are Porsche. The Caymans were mostly all running off the road. I use Mid Ohio. I've not been to any other yet.
Robert, a buddy of mine who tracks regularly @ The Glen is taking his new 718 GT4 to Mid-Ohio sometime this year. I'll have to check his schedule, perhaps you'll be there ?
 

Robert D

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Robert, a buddy of mine who tracks regularly @ The Glen is taking his new 718 GT4 to Mid-Ohio sometime this year. I'll have to check his schedule, perhaps you'll be there ?
I've not gone since 2019 and didn't reserve for this summer. I may go in October. We usually go in June and October. I was going 2x per year and then covid came. I haven't been since. I want to go back, but honestly I've been lazy and haven't gone about making plans.

He is going to love Mid Ohio.
 

Robert D

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Robert, a buddy of mine who tracks regularly @ The Glen is taking his new 718 GT4 to Mid-Ohio sometime this year. I'll have to check his schedule, perhaps you'll be there ?
Good article here on Mid Ohio. It is very challenging when wet!

"

The course is very hard, with almost no level ground. Blind crests through the esses must be taken in confidence, and turn 11 coming out of Thunder Valley really is the fastest corner on the track, off camber in fourth gear, with quite a bit less runoff than it probably should have. But when you put a lap together, it flows so nicely, even in a car with just 200 horsepower, that there’s nothing like the satisfaction of a good lap there. As far as racing venues go, Mid-Ohio is probably America’s best-kept secret, with all the history and the elements in place for a spectacular amateur race. Hermann Tilke would probably want to tear the place down and build an Autodrome, and maybe F1 racing could come to Ohio. A.W. Tillinghast probably wouldn’t change a thing. Neither would I.

But seriously, God help you if you have to race there in the wet."


Mid-Ohio Is Old-School, Gnarly—And Insanely Rewarding | The Drive
 

Brandon Hartwick

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I installed a giant stack of subwoofers this weekend. This actually works extremely well, the bass is fast, clean and you can feel it in your chest. This sounds way better than the single 12" I had previously.

PXL_20220611_202732842.jpg
 

Robert D

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I installed a giant stack of subwoofers this weekend. This actually works extremely well, the bass is fast, clean and you can feel it in your chest. This sounds way better than the single 12" I had previously.

View attachment 22910
So, do you think having the woofers up high increases the effect? Wonder because you mention feeling the wave in your chest. That's the feeling I love about a concert.

How high is the top woofer?
 

Russr

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This amp is rated at 215W per channel into 8 ohms, it's plenty. With an active setup you're not losing any power through the passive crossover so you don't really need a ton of power. Hypex plate amps look pretty cool, but big $$$ in comparison.
Awesome thread, awesome projects, amazing attention to detail... great stuff all around!

I have a question and a potential "oops". Question first: What do you do to the internal crossover when you detach the woofer from it? Just throw a 4Ohm power resistor in, or something more esoteric?

Potential Oops: I'm assuming (and we all know wthat they say about assumptions!) that your Shop does some form of metal work... plasma cutters, water jets, etc. You might want to wash your panels again after... I was installing some PC gear a few years (OK, OK.. decades) ago in a metal-working shop, and the amount of air-born slag was.. surprising! You seem to approach everything very holistically, so I'm sure you have considered anything like that, but I felt the urge to speak up!

Awesome projects.. looking forward to emulating what you've done on my SL3's and Aeriusi's as soon as possible!

Russ
 

Brandon Hartwick

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So, do you think having the woofers up high increases the effect? Wonder because you mention feeling the wave in your chest. That's the feeling I love about a concert.

How high is the top woofer?
It's probably 6ft or so, I'll measure later this evening when I get home. I don't think it has as much to do with height as it does with cone area. The woofers hardly even move so everything is super clean, I really like this and the subwoofer tower will definitely be staying.

EDIT: To the center of the cone of the top woofer measures 4'-9"
 
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Brandon Hartwick

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Awesome thread, awesome projects, amazing attention to detail... great stuff all around!

I have a question and a potential "oops". Question first: What do you do to the internal crossover when you detach the woofer from it? Just throw a 4Ohm power resistor in, or something more esoteric?

Potential Oops: I'm assuming (and we all know wthat they say about assumptions!) that your Shop does some form of metal work... plasma cutters, water jets, etc. You might want to wash your panels again after... I was installing some PC gear a few years (OK, OK.. decades) ago in a metal-working shop, and the amount of air-born slag was.. surprising! You seem to approach everything very holistically, so I'm sure you have considered anything like that, but I felt the urge to speak up!

Awesome projects.. looking forward to emulating what you've done on my SL3's and Aeriusi's as soon as possible!

Russ
Thanks! I try to detail my work well so others can copy/learn from it easily.

As for the crossovers, you don't need to add anything. Just disconnect the crossover wires from the lower set of binding posts and run a new set of wires directly to the woofer. Alternatively you can do what I did and just add another set of binding posts and leave the crossover connections alone. You can direct drive the woofer at its nominal impedance with zero issues.

My shop does do fabrication work but it's all done in another room. I made sure my speakers were well out of the way, we also weren't doing any metal work that week. No harm with the suggestion 🙂.

I highly recommend doing the active crossover modification on any Martin Logan speaker that uses a passive woofer crossover, the improvement is huge.
 

Brandon Hartwick

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I told myself I wouldn't do this, but here we are.

I am soon to acquire a pair of nearly new panels from a pair of ML Quest's, I already have the electronics I need minus crossovers. I will be designing woofer enclosures and panel frames from scratch out of laser cut steel.

Each speaker will use one (or 2) 12" woofers depending what's involved in making that work properly. The entire bass section will obviously be active with no passive crossovers, if I use 2 woofers I will probably need more DSP capabilities. I have started a thread on DIY audio to seek more advice on woofer layout because I'm not sure what the best way to go is.

This is a very basic drawing I made in about 10 minutes just to give me an idea of scale. Nothing here is final. Over 5' tall and 2' deep these will be big.
esl_1.png
 

Tosh

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You know what's always annoyed me about these ESL hybrids? The fact that they always need toe-in and so always make the whole room look askew due to the cabinets being at an angle. If the panel could swivel independently for toe-in while the cabs stayed straight and aligned with the rest of the furniture and walls in everyone's house, I could stand having a wider ESL panel and a larger deeper bass cabinet. So maybe ML is shooting themselves in the foot there if you catch my drift?
 

Brandon Hartwick

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You know what's always annoyed me about these ESL hybrids? The fact that they always need toe-in and so always make the whole room look askew due to the cabinets being at an angle. If the panel could swivel independently for toe-in while the cabs stayed straight and aligned with the rest of the furniture and walls in everyone's house, I could stand having a wider ESL panel and a larger deeper bass cabinet. So maybe ML is shooting themselves in the foot there if you catch my drift?
I mean, I personally don't mind the toe in, mine are only angled a little bit and that seems to be ideal.

I understand what you're talking about though, it wouldn't be a hard thing to build by any means really. I'm not sure what that would do to phase/timing having the woofer off axis from the panel. But it's probably too minor to worry about. I won't be doing this though, sorry lol.
 
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