ML's for listening room - HELP!!

[Desert Rat]

For my HT, I have Ascent i as front speakers. They are simply amazing - little shy on bass, but Depth more than makes up for them. I have another room in my home for stereo listening: it is 14ft by 14 ft. and doubles as my office. I live in an area where there is no ML dealer. While visiting Phoenix, I listened to the Summits. They sounded no where as warm and detailed as the Ascent i. I compared them to Focal/JMlabs 1027be, and the Focal sounded much better. I bought the Focal's as i got a great price on them. Now that they are in my study, I miss that glorious ML sound!! I miss the detail of guitar strings, vocals, that unbelievable mid-range of my Ascents.

I'm wondering if the dealer in Phoenix had the Summits set up poorly. I'd love to trade these back for ML speakers. Are the new ML's (summit, vantage) really as good as my Ascents? Will i be sorry if I send the Focals back for the Vantage? My room is small (14X14ft) so Summits probably won't fit. By the way, in my office i have Anthem tube preamp and Bryston amp.
Todd

 

[wink]

Hey Desert Rat!

Where did you go here in Phoenix to hear the Summits?

Dan

 

[Joey_V]

I feel that the Summits and Vantages require precise positioning and placement for best sound reproduction.... far more meticulous than the JM Labs 1027, mostly due to the ML's open rear/dipole nature.

The Summits and Vantage are generally regarded to be more accurate than the "warmer" Ascents, though variable interpretations as to which actually sounds better exist due to how we all hear and our inherent preferences that bias us towards one or the other.

That said, I think the newer MLs are better sounding than the previous generation, Ascents included.

I think that you wont be sorry if you ever traded back the 1027 for a Vantage or a Summit, but just be sure to listen to both in your own room if possible.

We have many on this board that have upgraded from considerable conventional speakers to the newer Logans... an example that pops into my head is Craig upgrading from his $8,000 Sonus Faber Cremonas to the Summits after concluding that the Vantages were better than the Cremonas initially.

 

[Reverb2009]

Hey Desert Rat!

Where did you go here in Phoenix to hear the Summits?

Dan

If it was at Showcase Audio and Video in Scottsdale, last time I was there they were using an all Krell setup with there summits. Krell has powerful bass and wonderful detail but is definitely not warm sounding equipment.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Your Martin Logan’s are only as good as the equipment you are using with them. If your components have a cold sound to them or a warm sound, lacking in detail, overly detailed, that’s what you Logan’s are going to sound like. They are very revealing speakers and unique that they don’t tend to color the sound like a cone speaker does. Martin Logan’s get out of the way and revel your system for what it really is.

 

[kwr]

Will i be sorry if I send the Focals back for the Vantage? My room is small (14X14ft) so Summits probably won't fit. By the way, in my office i have Anthem tube preamp and Bryston amp.
Todd

The short answer is that you will be sorry. Small room and Bryston into a Be tweeter - no wonder you are having trouble.

In a 14 x 14 room I would be looking at stand mounted monitors with warm electronics. I think a dipole could be an ongoing disaster Can you borrow a different power amp and get those big Focal speakers off the wall where I suspect the bass heavy, top end tizzy sound is obscuring the midrange.

Where are the speakers? Where is the listening position? What is the source? What equipment fed the Focals on demo? So many big variables, so many opportunities to waste a lot of money achieving ordinary sound.

In all seriousness a little more information would help a lot. I Love my MLs but they are not the only speaker that can make a good sound.

Kevin

 

[twich54]

Desert Rat, I tend to concur with Kevin, the fact that your room is only 14x14 and that you are doing double duty as your office suggests to me that you would be hard pressed to find "true" sonic justice in that space. My listening room is also shared with my office, even with a demension of 16x24 I have to make concessions. The thought of putting 10k Summitt's in your enviroment sounds somewhat absurd.

 

[Desert Rat]

Demo was at Showcase in Scottsdale. Maybe if i did a "test drive" with the Ascent's in the office would help simulate what vantage speakers would sound like. Any other recommendations for speakers for that room?
Todd

 

[wink]

If it was at Showcase Audio and Video in Scottsdale, last time I was there they were using an all Krell setup with there summits. Krell has powerful bass and wonderful detail but is definitely not warm sounding equipment.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Your Martin Logan’s are only as good as the equipment you are using with them. If your components have a cold sound to them or a warm sound, lacking in detail, overly detailed, that’s what you Logan’s are going to sound like. They are very revealing speakers and unique that they don’t tend to color the sound like a cone speaker does. Martin Logan’s get out of the way and revel your system for what it really is.

Zip,
Yeah, they're still set up the same. I just bought my Script i's there a couple of weeks back. There's a Krell Showcase system running them, not quite the laid back sound that I prefer on the stat panels, but man do they have lots of bass slam.

Dan

 

[Reverb2009]

Zip,
Yeah, they're still set up the same. I just bought my Script i's there a couple of weeks back. There's a Krell Showcase system running them, not quite the laid back sound that I prefer on the stat panels, but man do they have lots of bass slam.

Dan

They are running the Summits off Krell showcase? Yuck! I like Krell but there showcase line just doesn’t do it fore me. Last time I was there they had the summits in a stereo setup by themselves running off a KAV-700cx amp, KAV 280p pre and Krell SACD. It was a glorious sounding system, very alive and exciting, but not very warm sounding.

They are running the Summits off Krell showcase? Yuck! I like Krell but there showcase line just doesn’t do it fore me. Last time I was there they had the summits in a stereo setup by themselves running off a KAV-700cx amp, KAV 280p pre and Krell SACD. It was a glorious sounding system, very alive and exciting, but not very warm sounding.

I am thinking about making trip to Phoenix in October, I will have to stop by that Showcase and see what’s new.

 

[edwinr]

I traded up from Klipschorns to buy my Summits. The room enveloping sound is similar, but the sheer detail and musicality is a totally different ball game with the new ML's. I also auditioned the Vantages for about two weeks in my home. The Vantage is a great loudspeaker, but is better for smaller rooms than mine. The Summit goes much louder and is more dynamic. I don't know whether the Krell Showcase is a good amp to audition the Summits with. They're too in your face. Try something from Classe or if you want tube, why not Audio Research? I heard the Summit with the VSi55 - it didn't sound half bad.

 

[jmschnur]

I have my Vantges's in a 12x14 room. I has taken about 3 months to get them right. Now that they are-they are really aweet.

Joel

 

[Scumurculum]

Forgive me if I commit heresy on this forum but for a small room like you are proposing let me suggest a non ML speaker.

There is an australian made ribbon speaker called Ambience which I have auditioned several times as well as a being owned by a friend of mine.

I love the sound of these and was about to buy the Ultra 1600 when I fell in love with a pair of aeon i's.

The smallest of these speakers is the ultra 1400 which is perfect for rooms about your size.

They are sold in the US their web site: http://www.ambienceusa.com/

Just a thought