Minimum WPC to drive ML Source and system wide budgetting advice.

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iamtimothy

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Hello folks,
I realize that this topic is somewhat dreaded here, I have looked through the "member systems" page and searched quite a bit throughout the forum, I hope you don't think I am just being lazy with this post, but I need direction when it comes to a suitable amp.

I recently purchased a set of used ML Source speakers. I need to drive them, my setup will mostly be playing Vinyl from an RP3(hopefully) through an NAD PP2i Phono Preamp. The Source manual states:

We recommend an amplifier with 100 to 200 watts per channel for
most applications. Probably less would be adequate for our smaller hybrids...

How much less will be adequate? also I know that I need an amp that will be stable to less than 2ohms, many of the amps I find don't mention anything under 4ohms. I'm leaning toward looking for something vintage on the used market that will get me by for a while until I can afford something a bit nicer, but for now the budget is sort of shot. Unless I give up on bringing back an rp3 from the UK in two weeks and put that money into better amp, but I'd like to think the turntable might be a bigger return for my investment. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Timothy
 
Hola Timothy. I am going to be nailed here with this recommendation regarding power amps. I do believe that its better to have quality watts than quantity. Do not worry about the stat panels impedance. Their behavior is not that dramatic regarding the impedance aspect. I had listened amplifiers with specs that are not to die for, and drives the stat panes with magic...example: Go to Audiophile recommended components and there (http://www.stereophile.com/content/2016-recommended-components-power-amps) or The Absolute Sound buyers guide (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/buyers_guides/) you will find why they recommend it.

My best advise, regarding of any brand, is to try to audition it first. Try to have two different brand and listen the same musical material for one hour or so, each. Do not change from one to the other before this time, because you might get confused because our immediate memory time. It only last about 15 seconds, and 20 seconds to those who has trained ears. Choose the one that you liked most. With Martin Logan, you have aspects that with other speakers if very difficult to hear. Look for the stage, the sense of 3D, the right size of the instruments at the stage, the timbre, the air between them, the feeling of the musician(s) playing for you. Do not search for quantity bass, or mid range or highs. Search for how the musical instrument(s) is projected there, in your own place. Look for details, like the air at wind instruments, or vocals. Usually on vocals, you have a sore throat. With ML, you get clean voices without any traces of throat soreness. Listen first solo instrument like piano or guitar. Then add strings, and winds. The percussion instruments should be clean, with tons of detail, and located in a particular place at the virtual stage that your Source are capable to produce effortless.

Trust your ears, and if you like what you are listening to, then you are in the right track.
Happy listening!
 
The most important thing is to listen, and try as many different amps as possible. Make sure you can have in-home demo when you're trying them.

Quality over quantity for sure - the most important thing is that the amplifier is stable at tough loads, as 'stat panels are unquestionably hard to drive.

As a rough guide, amps that can double their power at halving impedance (or come near to that) are the most stable.
 
https://wyred4sound.com/products/b-stock-demo-0

Good news for you.

If you go to the above link you will find pair of high power, 2 ohm stable, pair monoblocks used however factory fully tested for $1200.

I have not heard these amplifiers. If you wish you can open a thread requesting MLO members to give the amps adv. and disadv.

Review of monoaural amps under recommended equipment amplifiers at MLO website.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
As a rule of thumb, any name brand amp that doubles its power as the impedance halves would have a stable power supply to drive demanding speakers. This is less critical - but still important, in electrostatic designs since the very low impedance load is at very high frequency in contrast with dynamic speaker designs and the bass region is where the load is maximum. For a Source, I'd think a good 100wpc @8ohm amp that doubles to 200wpc @ 4ohms should be sufficient for an average size room at moderately high volumes. If you want to listen to Led Zeppelin at concert level volumes you'll need to look elsewhere, not only for the amp but perhaps even different speakers. Good luck.
 
Hello Timothy, welcome! As mentioned above, the amp needed is a multiple question, there are many things going on that to be addressed. Here is an excellent article to read, http://www.dagogo.com/an-interview-with-roger-sanders-of-sanders-sound-systems , Roger really knows his stuff.

If you are looking for an inexpensive, vintage amp, you can't go wrong with the old Yamaha MX series, I had the 800U, rated stable down to 1ohm, 165wpc @8ohms. Nice clean sound, not in the big boy leagues but...you can find one for under $500 US, they are good sound on the cheap. Nice looking too.
 
In response to M15 above, I owned a wyred4sound amplifier for a couple years. I had a 4 ch. unit I used with Anthony Gallo Ref 3.1 speakers bi-amplifed with an external crossover to drive the woofer second voice coil. It sounded ok. Nothing really special but I cannot point to any negatives either. I suppose being mostly "neutral" is not such a bad thing for an amplifier. When I got my ML speakers I had no need for the extra 2 channels so I sold it. If you are looking for lots of good stable, digital power at a very reasonable price, W4S is certainly an option to consider.
 
jtucker said:
In response to M15 above, I owned a wyred4sound amplifier for a couple years. I had a 4 ch. unit I used with Anthony Gallo Ref 3.1 speakers bi-amplifed with an external crossover to drive the woofer second voice coil. It sounded ok. Nothing really special but I cannot point to any negatives either. I suppose being mostly "neutral" is not such a bad thing for an amplifier. When I got my ML speakers I had no need for the extra 2 channels so I sold it. If you are looking for lots of good stable, digital power at a very reasonable price, W4S is certainly an option to consider.
Click to expand...

Many thanks jtucker for your positive recommendation of W4S amplifier. Good to know I was not way off target recommending a W4S mono block amplifier.

Thanks once again for kind words. Have fun listening to music.
 
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Hello Everyone,
First off I would like to thank you all for your response, I picked up an NAD 2200 stereo amplifier from kijiji(classified site like craigslist) for $250.00. So my setup will be a Rega Rp3(table)-NAD PP2i(phono pre)-NAD 2200(amp)-Martin Logan Source. Sort of vintage mid-fi I guess. Thoughts?
 
Hola. That's a monster power amp. It will drive your Source with no problem. Be careful, the amp is truly powerful. Enjoy your new sound!
 
Oh Jeeze, I've got a new conundrum - and it is delicious folks!
It would seem I have unwittingly gone down the path of separates, when really I was only after a taste of electrostats! After settling on the NAD 2200 power amp to drive the Source speakers I had no idea would require a new amp -I have discovered that none of my components feature a volume knob! So I now need to purchase a preamp, and I need my wife not to notice :ROFL:.

Please tell me why I shouldn't buy this:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Audio-Mini-6...fd542f2&pid=100010&rk=4&rkt=9&sd=271424718624

And now that you know how strapped my budget is, please tell me what I should be looking at.
 
Hola. It looks like a bargain preamp. Please notice that you only have one input. You might need a selector switch if you are going to play more than just LPs. With a selector switch, you can have up to three inputs, with one output. You can get it at amazon.
Enjoy!
 
I was looking at that NAD 2200 amplifier. The literature claims it has "inverted channels" so that the left channel is 180 degrees out of phase with the right channel. While I agree with NADs assertion that it is more efficient, that configuration will result in cancellation of bass in the room. NAD addresses this in the manual. You should probably double check your speaker connections to ensure that the end result is that both speakers are in phase. I use a NAD 2100 to drive my remote room speakers and have been happy with it.
 
amey01 said:
Because the mere presence of a valve MAKETH NOT an amplifier sound good.

You can not get good sound for $39. Sorry.
Click to expand...

The question was mostly rhetorical, and also contained a second part asking what I should be looking for on an already shot budget.

Thanks for the response.

I'm thinking of acquiring a passive pre-amp for the time being, it would just be nice to have an equalizer, sadly any non-passive cheap preamp with EQ capabilities will probably ruin the signal correct?
 
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