Me and my new Summits: introduction of a newbie

[Domchuck]

Hi!

This is to introduce me here in this forum. I'm a total newbie in the world of ML and I have started to read this forum to compensate my lack of experience.

The only think I know is that I love the sound of these beauties

I have started to look for better and better sound 7-8 years ago. I always had dynamic speakers in my system so far. I have experienced the sound of ESL's at my dealer's showroom and when invited to some of my audiophile friends. It was always positively shocking to hear the sound of the bigger models.

Recently, I made the big step, I bought a beautiful pair of 5-year old dark cherry Summits in immaculate condition, checked by the official ML dealer here, in Hungary.

Unfortunately, I'm just in the process of moving to a new house, I have the Summits with me, but they will be connected and fine tuned only in my new flat. I will then post some pictures of my system, mostly composed of an Eastsound E5 CD player, a Clearaudio Champion Limited Edition turntable fitted with a Benz Micro LP Ebony moving coil cartridge, a Musical Fidelity kW Phono preamp and a Dussun V8i integrated amp.

My main issues are related to the acoustic treatment of my listening room, the positioning of the speakers, the possible tweaks of the Summit, the preferred associated gears. I have started to search for related threads here, there are quite a few

I will surely ask for advices from experienced members and I hope that I could also contribute somehow with my modest experience in Hi-Fi.

Thanks,

Domchuck

 

[invenio]

Hey, a fellow Hungarian. I live in the United States but was born in Hungary (moved out to America when i was 3 years old but have visited on multiple occasions). I own the ML Vantage's but the Summits are awesome. With electrostats the room is a critical piece of the sound system. Make sure you acoustically treat the room as it will help the sound dramatically. You can check out pictures of my setup at the link below if interested. I took extra care with speaker placement as well as acoustic treatments to the room. I applied approximately 150 sound proofing panels in the room (by hand, it took a long time, but well worth it). By the way, there are some great threads on speaker placement and room setups on these forums. I just signed up today as well, I can't believe I did not see this before.

 

[Krazikiwi]

Servus Domchuck,

Great to have an an analogue man in the forum, love the neutrality of the Benz. Get some photos up in the members section when you can.

It has been awhile since I walked around Budapest, lovely city. We have a large Hungarian emigre community here in New Zealand.

Ask away, this is a great forum.

Fjeff

 

[twich54]

Welcome ! always good to add another analog fan to the group, myself a Benz lover as well !

 

[Domchuck]

Hello invenio! Thank you for your welcome and advises. For sure, I will take care of the acoustics. I have read some good reviews on the GiK Acoustic panels for example, I will ask a quotation from them for a complete system of panels. For some reason, I tend to prefer smaller but very enthusiastic manufacturers, like the guys at GiK, they also have a dealer not too far from here, in Bratislava, but I will also check bigger names like Auralex and Vicoustic, they have a good dealer here in Budapest.

I've checked your system, man, this is madness, this room is unbelievable

I have the possibility to have a dedicated listening room, but it is only 200 Sq. Ft., a very small room. Otherwise, the system will be installed in the living-room, this one is a 650 Sq. Ft. room, more suitable for the Summits, but there, there is no possibility to install acoustic panels and other tweeks, for aesthetic reasons. I can only move the listening position and the speakers more freely, the room is decently damped and the many bookshelves already there are diffusors as well.

I will check all of this in the threads of this forum

Thanks!

 

[Domchuck]

Hi Fjeff,

Thanks, I will make some pictures when my system will be reinstalled in my new flat, in 2-3 weeks. You also have terrific systems!

I had a Gyrodec with Rega 250 arm fitted with the Benz LP at home for a few days, at the time I was searching for an analogue front-end, I remember it had a beautiful sound, but finally I moved to the more "precise" type of sound delivered by the Clearaudio Champion, with its unipivot arm. Although I'm very happy with this turntable, I wish to seriously upgrade it one day, an SME model 20 would be my dream

I know that many Hungarians have moved to New Zeland (and to many other welcoming countries, like the US, invenio is maybe one of them? ) in the late 50's and after, during the communist regime. But all these things have changed, here, some 20 years ago

 

[Domchuck]

Hi Dave,

Thank you for welcoming me here!

Your system is JUST incredible. There is nothing else I can say

 

[invenio]

Hello invenio! Thank you for your welcome and advises. For sure, I will take care of the acoustics. I have read some good reviews on the GiK Acoustic panels for example, I will ask a quotation from them for a complete system of panels. For some reason, I tend to prefer smaller but very enthusiastic manufacturers, like the guys at GiK, they also have a dealer not too far from here, in Bratislava, but I will also check bigger names like Auralex and Vicoustic, they have a good dealer here in Budapest.

I've checked your system, man, this is madness, this room is unbelievable

I have the possibility to have a dedicated listening room, but it is only 200 Sq. Ft., a very small room. Otherwise, the system will be installed in the living-room, this one is a 650 Sq. Ft. room, more suitable for the Summits, but there, there is no possibility to install acoustic panels and other tweeks, for aesthetic reasons. I can only move the listening position and the speakers more freely, the room is decently damped and the many bookshelves already there are diffusors as well.

I will check all of this in the threads of this forum

Thanks!

Wow, it sounds like you have this plan very thought out. Clearly, you are going to have to make some big decisions. Having a dedicated room offers advantages with speaker placement, acoustic treatment, etc. However, 200 sq ft is definitely on the small side for the Summits. Electrostats need "room to breath" to sound their best. One thing you can try is setting it up in the living room and see how they sound. If they sound good you may just leave it there. If they are not all that you want then you can always move them to the smaller dedicated room and go through the process (and expense) of buying the acoustic treatments. Ultimately, what you may find is that a large room may sound better than an acoustically treated room that is 1/3 the size.

P.S.-I'm only 33 so I moved to the US in the early 80's. I guess in a way it was my parents desire to escape communism but nothing like what people had to go through in the 50's.

 

[Domchuck]

Yes indenio, I will surely start with the installation in the huge living-room. Then, once I will get the acoustic treatment in my dedicated small room, I will move the gears there to hear the difference. At the end, I would anyhow prefer to keep my audio stuff and the records in the dedicated room, I might search for a smaller speaker there (I have plenty of decent electronics and sources waiting to be connected to make a second system) and leave the Summits in the big room for very special occasions...Actually, I still have my Thiel CS2.3 speakers (replaced now with the Summits) they are waiting for a new owner. I should maybe keep them?


PS: It's funny, because I was 6 when we moved from Budapest to France, in 1982, probably for similar reasons as your parents Those were the last years when Hungarians were able to “apply for” political refugee status in western countries. The wind of change was already in the air in the second half of the eighties...We moved back for good to Hungary in 1991, full of hope in respect of the future. Although it was not an instant nirvana, the decision of my parents happened to be a good one, now that I'm looking back to those last 20 years

 

[Domchuck]

(...) Clearly, you are going to have to make some big decisions (...) then you can always move them to the smaller dedicated room and go through the process (and expense) of buying the acoustic treatments.

Damn, I got a first quotation from GiK, the minimum would be 4 Tri-Traps and 9 "244" bass trap panels, but the optimum solution would be 4 Tri-Traps and 21 (!!!!!) "244" bass trap panels in my small room.:eek1:

 

[beek]

I would say start small, a room can also be killed & you wouldent have spent the bucks. What does analysis say?
This room has a hump at 60-80 hz thats all I deal with.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Damn, I got a first quotation from GiK, the minimum would be 4 Tri-Traps and 9 "244" bass trap panels, but the optimum solution would be 4 Tri-Traps and 21 (!!!!!) "244" bass trap panels in my small room.:eek1:

Hi Dom,

Here's my take.

1) ML's, by nature, are less sensitive to bass induced room problems than most speakers.

2) You have 2 adjustments in the back of your Summit that will allow you to reduce any bass issues.

3) 21 - 24" X 24" GIK panels seems to be absurd. I use the GIK product in my system but this seems over the top.

There are those in this forum, me being one, that believes that a room can be over treated. This makes the music presentation so dull and uninvolving that it makes one wonder why they have an expensive audio system.

Start with some traps in the corners. Put some minor absorption devices on the wall behind the speakers (to tame the reflectivity) and have a listen. If the music seems to still be somewhat bright, add some absorption on the side walls and then, if necessary, behind your listening position.

Bare in mind that you need to have patience to determine final speaker location. This includes toe in and vertical panel angle. Once you get close, you'll know it.

Listen for another week or so (so your ear becomes familiar with the current set up) and continue to make minor speaker adjustments.

From my personal experience, this could take 6 to 8 months but it will be well worthwhile. And during the process, remember to have fun and not get frustrated.

Good luck.

GG

 

[Domchuck]

Hello Gordon,

Thank you for your valuable advises! I have read many of your posts here, I believe you have an impressive experience with Logans, your opinion is very important to me.

6-8 months to find the most enjoyable position seems to be a very long time but hey, I'm playing this game since my first decent Hi-fi set, that is to say some 7-8 years ago, andI1m still excited like a child when I get a new component, a tweak, a new positioning or listening position

Firstly, I was in contact with the GIK dealer in Eastern Europe, but because this huge amount panels recommended by him, now I turned to Glenn and the main acoustic designer of GIK in Atlanta to get a double-checked analysis, he is currently evaluating my case

PS: I have read in some very old posts about those wonderful spikes manufactured by "Jason", allowing a more vertical tilting of the Summits. I understood that you were highly recommending this tweak. I guess it is no longer possible to buy from him, and anyway, I live so far from the States, but I know a guy here in Hungary who can manufacture similar spikes to me, this is certainly a tweek that I will try in the future

 

[Domchuck]

Hi Beek,

I totally agree with you, I do not intend to transform my listening room to a sound recording studio or a dead-chamber used for speaker calibration, for instance

I have asked for a second check of my case from GIK USA, I hope to get the result within a few days

 

[Domchuck]

My system is now reinstalled in my new house, not everything is fine-tuned yet, but already wohhh the sound is good!! I took some pictures:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?12793-System-411-%28Summit%29