Matching my Statements with surrounds - Ideas?

[David Matz]

A couple weeks ago I came here for advice on the best amplification for my ML Statement E2's that I recently purchased. I now have 4 Spectron Musician III MK2 Monoblocks on order thanks to advice on the internet and my ears will be the judge over their 30 day return policy.

Now I need to buy surround speakers for the room and I'm not sure which ML models will be best suited to the task. The room will be reasonably large, about 20' x 30-35' when complete and it is new construction that I will custom design for acoustics with Dennis Erskine.

I am not looking at spending a great deal of money on the surrounds (though I acknowledge that this is obviously a relative term) since I have spent so much already and feel that the surround speakers are somewhat less important. I DO need a good center channel and have heard of some people here doubling up on the Stylos model.
I may go with used ReQuests or Monolith III's for the rears or ???

Can I get some ideas and advice here please? I want to find a seamless match for my E2's and use legacy products to do it (after all, the E2 itself is a legacy product now, right?)

~Russ

Russ,

You can find most quality legacy products for $1500 to $3500, including maybe even the Prodigies at times. That said, the ML line has consistently improved - better focus, panel/ bass integration, and clarity. Personally, I would pick a budget, and get the newest model you can that is within your budget. Please keep the group posted on your experiences. Most of us would love to have your audio problems.

Have fun,
David

 

[MiTT]

Yes, indeed that is the way I see it too. I have, and will continue to help any individual who needs or asks for help. I never have based anyones system or money spent on it how worthy they are as a individual. Many have came to my home and listened and enjoyed the merits of fine audio. I too have been to many individuals homes and shared my equipment for them to see if it will better their systems. . This is how we learn and help each other out. However; I will continue to voice my views on what I think. That my friend is my constitutional right !

Indeed it is, and I support your right to express your opinion. My indignation stemmed not from your right to hold an opinion, but rather from the manner in which you agressively and hostilely asserted it in this case and in a very public forum.

In your reply to the O.P. you managed in the span of two paragraphs to call him an "overpaid unacknowledged show off", said he must "have no Audio brains", said that he was a "typical Audio idiot who buys for the cost not the value" and that "Running statements for HT is a insult". (Hey, by the way, Gayle Sanders used them for his own home theater system when he lived in Lawrence. I can find the pictures if you want to see them.)

You talk above about how helpful you are to others in this hobby, and I believe you are based upon many of your past posts, yet for this particular poster your only advice was "Quit the Sarcasm and sell them to a real audiophile who may appreciate them, or Quit the bragging and go listen and enjoy !" Why? That doesn't strike me as encouraging anyone to engage any further in this great hobby.

You go on in your rebuttle to accuse me of assuming judgement. I did not. I simply called you out on your hostile tone and utter rudeness to a new member. If anyone here has assumed anything it has been you in your assessment of the original posters situation and intentions. What do you know about this guy, his situation or his intentions? Hey, nice use of the obvious "ASS-ume" in your reply to me as well. If I'm an "ass" for doing my job as a moderator and reminding folks when they are crossing a line so be it, I believe most here will see it slightly differently.

You completely missed my point in bringing up Race, Religion and Sexual Orientation. You are correct, they have nothing to do with this discussion in exactly the same fashion as making statements about ownership of a flagship speaker due to an abundance of privalige and abscence of intelligence is similarly irrelevent.

Lastly you say "Yes its his money and I could care a less is he burns them." Beyond the gramatical issue I think you are trying to tell us that you really didn't care if that was what the O.P. wished to do - so why all the vitriol? If you really don't care why not post a simple suggestion, or something that may actually help the guy get the best out of his system, or better yet, don't post a reply at all if you really don't care. Seems like you care a LOT, but not in a constructive way.

 

[Tifosi]

Mr. Tifosi with 7 posts ! WHO is accusing WHOM of Trolling!

Its C.A.P, not DUDE !

I used "troll" as a noun, not a verb. But, I suspect the significance of this will be lost on you.

7 posts vs. 967 posts. Ahhhhh, the internet equivalent of big man on campus. How dare an ‘upstart’ like me criticize a Senior Member, right?

I am sorry , you feel I am Callus. I may be to a degree. To be Heedless or to remiss your decision on such a product makes your self look a bit foolish.

Neither the OP nor MiTT look foolish. Rather, you’ve made an a$$ of yourself. Bet you’re the pride of your trailer park.

And, C.A.P.? ... I suspect Chihuahua is far more appropriate, dude.

 

[MiTT]

Neither the OP nor MiTT look foolish. Rather, you’ve made an a$$ of yourself. Bet you’re the pride of your trailer park.

And, C.A.P.? ... I suspect Chihuahua is far more appropriate, dude.

Carefull Tifosi - responding to an insult in kind does not distinguish one from the other.

Let's get this thread back on a useful track!

 

[TomDac]

Simmer down please...

 

[SteveInNC]

I've driven a Ferrari one time in my life. I've driven a 911 one time in my life. If I win the lottery tonight, I'm liable to buy one or the other (maybe both ). I know a bit about both marques, certainly not as much as an afficionado, but enough to know that they're both excellent, generally for different reasons. If I bought one (or both), it would be because of their reputations and the fact that I like to drive, not because I'm trying to impress anyone by owning one. I drove a Honda Civic Del Sol for fourteen years so that I could afford the BMW I drive now. Once I owned them, I'd probably join a forum of owners who have the experience with the marques that I don't, read, and ask them questions so that I could learn.

Posers don't ask questions about their "toy" because they have no need to know anything else about it. People who ask questions want to learn... what they learn has as much to do with their teachers as it does with what they are taught. I've certainly learned a lot in this thread...

To the OP: as some have mentioned, you'll likely want to match an ESL-series speaker (Vista, Vantage) so that you retain the electrostatic character for your surrounds. As also mentioned, in the used market, Ascents (or the later "i" variant) would probably match well acoustically, and are physically large compared to the current designs, so are likely to stand up visually to mass of the Statements. While 7.1 is the rage, I think that 5.1 is fine for most purposes for surround systems. A center channel will improve the audibility of dialog, but phantom-center should work fine too. If you hook up with a local dealer, good ones will let you try stuff in your home, generally for a weekend or more. Try variants on surrounds and centers and see what sounds good to you.

 

[hdtv4you]

Exactly why I only posted one thread (now 2), I was made to feel like such a royal turd for being upset. But I still come here everyday and read all the new posts. Why, because the majority of the audio freaks such as myself are full of useful info that I am able to learn something new each and every day.

By the way I still don't own any ML products, but will by months end . We all need to lighten up just a bit and enjoy each others opinions and knowledge cuz like it or not we ARE ALL the same.... SOUND SICK and can't live without toonz or HT of the highest quality that we can afford at any given time.

As Wayne and Garth put it "Rock on Dude" Happy listening:bowdown: And why does it matter how many times anyone has posted, the only thing that matters is we are Brothers of the "Sickness"

Terry

 

[ScottGardner]

C.A.P.

Wow.

Thats a lot of negative energy. Sounds like there may be some latent issues that need resolution.

 

[sashua]

I posted a comment out into cyberspace and came back two days later to find that it had illicited two pages of bile interspersed with only random bits of sensibility.

I do not NEED guidance with what equipment to buy in order to properly drive these speakers. I have been an audiophile for 30 years and a professional musician for nearly as long. I simply wanted to consider the advice of Martin Logan experts in my decision and assumed that this club would have a slightly more mature and urbane constitution. As one poster said, I am not an equipment junkie and came here because my 30 years of enjoying fine music reproduction has been just the start of a long education.

Furthermore, I do not need to prove myself to anyone and have better things to do with my time than fuel the jealous rage of some dim-whitted child.

I am a two channel music aficionado by my own definition but also have a family and like to spend evenings watching cinema with my wife and three children. To this end I am in the process of building a new home cinema and have chosen Martin Logan over MBL because the omni-directional MBL's were hard to match properly with rear/center speakers and tune to my (or any) room. A recent pair of Statements on Audiogon auction caught my eye and bidding never met the sellers reserve. Some of you may remember this auction as it was only a few weeks ago. I contacted him and made a deal...much more than he was being offered but also much more than I had planned to spend. A fair exchange.

I have learned a great deal from this frank and open exchange of ideas. Mostly about human nature but even a little (very little) about actual speaker placement and matching. Those who were helpful in that regard...thanks.

I'll leave you now to get back to your regular discussion. Sorry for the intrusion and I'll not darken your doors again.

Russ

 

[Bernard]

I'll leave you now to get back to your regular discussion. Sorry for the intrusion and I'll not darken your doors again.

Russ

Russ, this is a request I have made of another poster in the past (and he is still here, perhaps even in this thread): please reconsider your decision to quit this forum. You would bring a lot of value to this forum as a professional musician; I say this with some envy as I play no instrument. This is a two-way street, i.e. we learn from each other. We may even get into a cable discussion . I hope you do reconsider.

Back to the thread: I would like to echo what another poster said: find a ML dealer who will lend you stuff you can try at home, or alternately, and this is more painful, go the Audiogon route, where you can always resell what you do not like.

Like all the other audio porn lovers on this site I am itching to see pictures of your setup, in construction and completed.

 

[User211]

C.A.P. - I think you owe this man (sashua) an apology, and I, for one, will be disappointed if you do not provide it.

This is an edit - I tend to agree with Mitt on the Request, below, on further reflection. Or possibly a pair of Ascents.

 

[MiTT]

Russ, this is a request I have made of another poster in the past (and he is still here, perhaps even in this thread): please reconsider your decision to quit this forum. You would bring a lot of value to this forum as a professional musician;... I hope you do reconsider.

The same from me sashua, please don't let the comments of one individual sway you too much. If you read back through all of the posts in this thread you'll realize that there was only one (another recanted) person who isn't supportive of your position or offering a recommendation.There are a lot of folks here who would enjoy tagging along on your musical journey. This is normally a more civilized place.

And I stand by my original suggestion that a pair of ReQuests would both sonically and visually be a great choice for your setup. Check out the dimensions of them compared to the stat sections of your E2's and I think you'll find them very similar.

 

[twich54]

Hindsight is certinally 20 / 20 !!

I do not NEED guidance with what equipment to buy in order to properly drive these speakers. I have been an audiophile for 30 years and a professional musician for nearly as long. I simply wanted to consider the advice of Martin Logan experts in my decision and assumed that this club would have a slightly more mature and urbane constitution. As one poster said, I am not an equipment junkie and came here because my 30 years of enjoying fine music reproduction has been just the start of a long education.

Sorry for the intrusion and I'll not darken your doors again.

Russ

Russ, first off....good morning...if you are still on the site ?

Take this for what it's worth...while I DO NOT condone CAP's "Lashing Out" you too could have been a bit more 'informative' with your post (as you have with the one from which I've quoted you) so as to mitigate the hostility.

Example....... You started two threads prior on speaker suggestions within the M/L family. In 4/07 you asked regarding a pair of Prodigy's, you then did not reply to one of the suggestions given you. Two months later you Started a thread on a pair of CLSIIz's, you gave one follow up post after which Neil and Raygun posted several other follow ups...with nothing from you.

Now given the fact that you have such a minimal track record(less than 20 posts) on the site your next thread comes down the pike with regard to your E-2 purchase. Again, not condoning CAP's mannerism, but I think my point is made.

sashua, this is not a "witch hunt" against you, rather , I'm trying to make the point to ALL that when a "inquiring type" thread is started common sense says for you the OP to stay in the discussion.

OK, BACK TO the discussion.....I concur with Tim (MiTT) thoughts on the Request for the very same reasons given.

 

[MiTT]

Dave, I love you like a brother, but I respectfully disagree.

Read the original post again. He describes what he's got for mains, describes what amplifiers he's picking up, talks about his room, mentions what he's doing for acoustics and then asks a question to the group regarding options for a center channel and surrounds. Not sure what his previous posts have to do with the discussion. He was oibviously trying to determine what speakers he wanted to pick up. He may not have replied to some posts, but I don't reply to every post either, and I especially didn't when I was a new member because I was just feeling my way within the community.

If sashua had asked these same questions pertaining to a pair of Ascents or Prodogies as his mains we wouldn't be having this discussion!

 

[twich54]

Agreed Tim, I was just trying to point out that Sasha has less than a dozen posts, he has started four threads, two of which, IMO he could have, as OP, managed better.

Does this, again, with respect to the two recent threads on the E-2's make CAP's mannerism right ?? Again.....No !

Another reason for the "member intro" area, for Sasha on his latest post did give us some more in-depth insight to himself as well as his audio goals.

Again....as a Moderator (God, I miss you Tim Russert) I'm trying to look at this from the middle of the road. CAP could have made his point better...YES !

That's it ...I'm off my soap box, sorry for the slight derailment here, lets get this train back on the tracks, there people waiting in the station !

 

[C.A.P]

First post 4/5/07

I am now considering a pair of Prodigys, currently on Audiogon for $4500. Not a bad price. I'm curious as to what real world sonic difference these speakers have over a pair of, say, REQuests for half the used-market price.

Can anyone tell me the major virtues and advantages of the Prodigy? They are easy enough to get specifications on but that tells me nothing I can use.

Thanks,
Russ

OK , off to a good start. Good question about the dollar to speaker ratio value. You received 5 responses that were from excellent sources. Did you respond NO. Not one response. Great way to introduce your self ! Arrogance ? Naaaa

Second post almost 2 months later .

I finally found a pair of these speakers. They are in MINT condition and are cherry wood.

I was so excited to finally locate a pair but the price seems very high so I need advice.

The guy wants $3600 for the pair. Lotta money for a pair of speakers with that many years on it. I've seen the CLS 2's sell in the $2000 price range but haven't seen 2Z's sell since I can remember.

Still, the new CLX's will sell for more than 10 Grand for sure so these are a relative bargain by comparison.

Can I get some advice here please?

Thanks,
Russ

Again asking for advice on the Value of a speaker dollar wise. Now this time it sounds like you have done a bit of research on these. As you state " I've seen the CLS 2's sell in the $2000 price range but haven't seen 2Z's sell since I can remember." Sounds like someone who has some ML knowledge not the average audiophile would know CLS history. But your not a junkie!

I just scored a pair of ML Statements and want to drive them to the absolute best of their ability.OK that is a reasonable question . Probably one most cant answer as they never had the experience to do so! Seems this was a posture , as you later stated, you over paid the seller for them!

How about this quote!

I have always been a "hit and run" audio guy. By this I mean that I have always assembled components in my systems that were well reviewed and generally loved...but were not always the best synergistic match with each other.

This seems to be key.

"well reviewed and generally loved , but not always the best synergistic match with each other "


This to me sounds like Audio Oxymoron to my ears! or Audio gloating to your friends and neighbors ....Hey look here what I bought it was reviewed the ROBB Report as the most expensive and they say its the best ! It must be ! Audio ignorance is not bliss!



In this regard I need to biamp the stat and midrange towers and drive the bass stacks separately. A total then of 6 channels of monstrous amplification to be dealt out.



For the towers I was considering two stereo amps as opposed to 4 monoblocks.Which to no recommendation here on the site were the Spectral Musician Mono Blocks recommended by any member. Or

I think that 4 giant monoblocks on my floor might be a bit OTT for my wife

Again you go against your own advice and tell us what you BOUGHT !


I am considering class A power in this case and have heard the BAT VK-600SE's, The Plinius Statements, The various Krell and Levinson offerings and a few others but since home auditions seem to be a thing of the past here on Long Island I am making a blind decision based on evaluations made at CES and other shows (something that is lame at best)and advice from folks like yourselves.

Ok you admit to your decision here as to being "LAME at best " This sounds again like Audio Suicide. Heedless decisions with no real bassis for facts . Yet you state this in another post !

I do not NEED guidance with what equipment to buy in order to properly drive these speakers.

QUOTE]

OK which is it? You want help or to let us know what you have or will buy !

My system:
ML Statements for front
ML Prodigy's at rear for surround
BAT REX Preamp
Anthem Statement D1 for Surround
Shanling CD-300 for Digital
Clearaudio Master Solution w/Master TQ-1 arm for analog
EAR 834P Phono Preamp
Denon 3900 for SACD/DVD-Audio
Playstation 3 for Blu Ray
JVC RS-2 Projector
JVC RS-VP2 Scaler
Three Rows of D-Box 300 Series Motion Seating


Ok I am a bit confused You state you have this system and have Prodigys for the rears already ! Why are you asking AGAIN What rears to run if you already have them ! HMMMM I'm no Matlock but even Deputy dog can figure this one out !

O.K. - lots more but that's a fair idea of where I am and now I'd love to hear what the experienced among your ranks think that I can do to invest in amperage. Budget is flexible up to about $30,000 for these front 6 channels

$30,000 worth of amps based off "LAME AT BEST DECISIONS" is if I may be CANDID! is Heedless. But as you stated you need no help ! I think you know exactly what you wanted and what you were going to run. I also think that your tiptoe into the Statements attitude was insulting to us. You have shown that you either are, as I stated " A audio purest or overpaid under knowledge d showoff.With these statements I think its a little of both ! You say your decisions are based of lame decisions and you want your equipment to be well reviewed. As long as the rest of Long Island is impressed by it thats fine I could care less how it sounds.

Thanks,
Russ

To start things off here, I am building a home theater onto my house with the help of Rives audio and the dimensions will depend on my needs - but it will be a big room with 4 rows of seating and lots of dedicated 20 amp circuits This is the exact reason that I posted. Rives knows exactly what will sound well and has worked with the Statements. They have worked with them before. They are not cheap to hire You either hired them for their knowledge or their reputation as they are "well reviewed"

This was not a attack on MR Russ. It was in defense what appeared to be posturing attitude towards the site and his careless posts with several contradicting statements. You state you are not a equipment junkie yet you purchase a set of the worlds finest ESL. BLINDLY ! Then say well I am not a junkie! You were rude in your first thread. You acted somewhat fruggle sounding in your second thread, Something we all are with audio. Now your burying us with your audio STATEMENT,"pun intended".

o point out that Sasha has less than a dozen posts, he has started four threads, two of which, IMO he could have, as OP, managed better.

Does this, again, with respect to the two recent threads on the E-2's make CAP's mannerism right ?? Again.....No !

Another reason for the "member intro" area, for Sasha on his latest post did give us some more in-depth insight to himself as well as his audio goals.

Again....as a Moderator (God, I miss you Tim Russert) I'm trying to look at this from the middle of the road. CAP could have made his point better...YES !

That's it ...I'm off my soap box, sorry for the slight derailment here, lets get this train back on the tracks, there people waiting in the station !

I guess I could have asked a few questions and made a easier transition.

C.A.P. - I think you owe this man (sashua) an apology, and I, for one, will be disappointed if you do not provide it.

This is an edit - I tend to agree with Mitt on the Request, below, on further reflection. Or possibly a pair of Ascents.

I stand by my Rebuttle , I owe NO one an apology for pointing out FACTS from his past STATEMENTS!

I used "troll" as a noun, not a verb. But, I suspect the significance of this will be lost on you.

7 posts vs. 967 posts. Ahhhhh, the internet equivalent of big man on campus. How dare an ‘upstart’ like me criticize a Senior Member, right?



Neither the OP nor MiTT look foolish. Rather, you’ve made an a$$ of yourself. Bet you’re the pride of your trailer park.

And, C.A.P.? ... I suspect Chihuahua is far more appropriate, dude.

Where is it your from ? MR Tifosi(as a noun)

Agreed Tim, I was just trying to point out that Sasha has less than a dozen posts, he has started four threads, two of which, IMO he could have, as OP, managed better.

Does this, again, with respect to the two recent threads on the E-2's make CAP's mannerism right ?? Again.....No !Right or wrong its my take on his posts.

Another reason for the "member intro" area, for Sasha on his latest post did give us some more in-depth insight to himself as well as his audio goals.

Again....as a Moderator (God, I miss you Tim Russert) I'm trying to look at this from the middle of the road. CAP could have made his point better...YES !

That's it ...I'm off my soap box, sorry for the slight derailment here, lets get this train back on the tracks, there people waiting in the station !

I have fallowed your posts in all of your threads. From start to finish. I have seen many come and go ! Audio is not about Reviews and such. Its a inner peace and finding that magical sound your searching for!
I have stated my rebuttals to Sashu and will refrain from this thread as it has No TRUE value to this thred. MR Sashu I hope your system sounds great to all of New York and its reviewers. Maybee you can get a article in the New Yorker and it will be "WELL REVIEWED with no SYNERGYSTIC MATCH WITH EACH OTHER"

 

[attyonline]

Don't know that I have ever seen an otherwise valued member post such a series of wrong headed and petty posts in any forum, let alone this one. Sad.

 

[rockeratheart]

anyone see . . .

my vikings give away a game today?

 

[ScottGardner]

C.A.P.

"And oftentimes excusing of a fault doth make the fault the worse by the excuse. "

William Shakespeare

 

[Duane Rogers]

I'm thinkin maybe a moderator should step in here. This is getting ugly D.R.