Looking at subwoofer brands other than ML

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Robert D

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I've got a problem somewhere in my depth I that ML has already told me they don't think can be repaired. I don't think I want to buy another because this one has not been reliable.

Looking at other brands now and thinking I may be better off going with a company that specializes in subs. Does anyone have experience with rhythmik subs? I've read good things about them and they seem to have a good reputation. Ive also read that their customer service is really good. It would be nice to call the company and get a live person on the phone. These are also priced much better than ML. I think I would buy 2 of these.

 

Chops

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It's probably more like they don't want to fix it, but rather you buy a new unit from them. More profit for them that way.

If your main goal is music, I would say Rhythmic Audio, JL Audio and REL. If mainly for movies, Rhythmic, JL or SVS.
 

Robert D

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Hi Robert, What does ML think is wrong with the sub that can't be repaired?

Brad
Well, the problem is that the issue I have is extremely intermittent and you cant just summon it up. What happens is youll be using it watching tv and it will start making clicking/static sounds for no reason. The sounds comes out all 3 woofers and it happens even if I turn off the sound source. So there will be no sound coming from the stereo and the static clicking persists.

I can then unplug it for about 1 minute and plug back in. It usually goes away. It can go 1 month or more without doing it and then one night, BAM its back. Last night it did it about 3x. It annoying AF. Otherwise it sounds good.

So I could take it in to the shop to get fixed and they may not even hear the problem. I think thats why ML told me it probably cant be fixed. The cost because of the labor wouldnt make any sense. I could guess and just start replacing parts, like the amp or power supply, but id just be guessing.

Anyone have an idea what part might be bad? THere are basically 3 modules I think. The amp, the power supply, and the rear panel. I bought it in 2012, so outside of warranty now by 5 years.

Its only 8 years old, id expect a good quality sub to last longer.
 

Robert D

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It's probably more like they don't want to fix it, but rather you buy a new unit from them. More profit for them that way.

If your main goal is music, I would say Rhythmic Audio, JL Audio and REL. If mainly for movies, Rhythmic, JL or SVS.
I like to use the sub for both music and movies. So both really. The Rhythmik has the best price. JL audio is more expensive as is REL. Wondering if JL and REL are that much better than the Rhythmik. I was leaning toward JL Audio until i discoverd the Rythmik. Rythmik has a great price i think because they have very little overhead. its only sold direct to the consumer, I think. No advertising etc.

Also figuring I will go dual subs, so the price cant be really high on each. Id be willing to shell out no more than $4k for both.
 

Robert D

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It's probably more like they don't want to fix it, but rather you buy a new unit from them. More profit for them that way.

If your main goal is music, I would say Rhythmic Audio, JL Audio and REL. If mainly for movies, Rhythmic, JL or SVS.
Through email communication, it sounds like they would offer me some kind of deal on a new sub, but I haven't followed up. I dont know what to do. I am going to try to get as much life out of this depth i as I can, so for now I don't need anything.

Another thing that sucks, if I'm not happy with the sound from my refurbished Prodigy panels, I will have to spend $3000 on new ones. The $$ add up damn fast.

I wish they would offer a deal on new panels!
 

Paul172

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I don’t have experience with Rythmic but I owned SVS and currently own JL Audio. Between SVS and JL Audio they are both great subs but between the SVS SB-16 and the JL Audio F-113 the JL is a superior sub in all aspects especially music. Bass is deep, tight, and very fast to compliment an ESL panel very nicely.
 

spkrdctr

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Robert, I would buy one F18 and see how you like it. Then, if you feel you need a second sub you can buy it later. Also, does it have a remote so you can adjust the volume without having to walk to the sub and fiddle in the back of the sub? That is a HUGE convenience feature that I would make mandatory. The pricing and the servo included is VERY nice.
 

Robert D

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I don’t have experience with Rythmic but I owned SVS and currently own JL Audio. Between SVS and JL Audio they are both great subs but between the SVS SB-16 and the JL Audio F-113 the JL is a superior sub in all aspects especially music. Bass is deep, tight, and very fast to compliment an ESL panel very nicely.
Thats great feedback. Exactly what I need to hear. I was considering both of those and wondered about the SVS. I think the JL Audio is a no brainer. Kinda tough though to compare those 2 subs since one costs just a bit over $2000 and the other is $5000. I wonder about the similar priced subs, like the e sub 112? How does that compare to the SVS SB 16? Did you ever own a lesser JL like that?

It sounds like from what most on here are saying that you get better sound from 2 lesser subs rather than just 1 that is a bit better. Ive always had just 1 and am thinking maybe I will go the dual route. Cant afford to spend $10k on subs though. Im thinking no more than $4k tops on two.

For the most part I think you get more when you pay more, but im wondering about the rythmik. It seems really good for the price. Smaller company and lower overhead etc. I wish someone on here that has one could comment.

Anyone ever heard a rythmik? Id want it to be good and tight for music and yet be good for home theater as well. I feel like my ML depth i does good for both, but the output in the lower frequencies could be a bit better for movies. Im looking for more of that bass that you can feel. It has some, but not a lot. The rythmik seems to go a lot lower, and having 18 inch woofers, they would move a lot of air!
 
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Tmich3941

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I've owned the exact same subs Paul172. Both great subs. I initially had the same experience but a little time materially changed my opinion. The SVS SB16 takes some time to break-in - more than the JL. Once that occurred, I can't say enough good things about it - especially on music. I'm not sure why two subs would ever be NECESSARY but appreciate that some believe if 1 is good 2 must be better. These are not small subs dimensionally or weight wise so make sure you consider your room size before making the plunge. With subs this powerful, room placement is critical and you need to have the flexibility in your room arrangement to get the most out of either sub.
 

Robert D

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Robert, I would buy one F18 and see how you like it. Then, if you feel you need a second sub you can buy it later. Also, does it have a remote so you can adjust the volume without having to walk to the sub and fiddle in the back of the sub? That is a HUGE convenience feature that I would make mandatory. The pricing and the servo included is VERY nice.
I don't think it has a remote control, but didn't look close enough to see. Ive never messed with the volume level of my subs. Once I get it set, it pretty much stays there. So spending cash on that would be a waste for me.

Getting just one would be smart because they have a 45 day trial and can be returned free of charge. You do have to pay shipping, so returning just one would be preferable.
 

Dan F.

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I have a pair of JL Audio e110 subs - I think the woofer size makes for faster response than bigger models, and the consensus seems to be that a pair results in much smoother response than a single sub. They are plenty powerful for my 23x16x9 room as well. I don't feel like I'm losing anything relative to the F113 or similar. Plus they're visually less imposing. And they're working well placed just behind and outside of my CLX panels.
 

Robert D

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I have a pair of JL Audio e110 subs - I think the woofer size makes for faster response than bigger models, and the consensus seems to be that a pair results in much smoother response than a single sub. They are plenty powerful for my 23x16x9 room as well. I don't feel like I'm losing anything relative to the F113 or similar. Plus they're visually less imposing. And they're working well placed just behind and outside of my CLX panels.
Your room is roughly the same as mine. Ours is about 20x20x9. It is open to the kitchen too though. Many seem to think the dual subs is the way to go.
 

Robert D

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I have a pair of JL Audio e110 subs - I think the woofer size makes for faster response than bigger models, and the consensus seems to be that a pair results in much smoother response than a single sub. They are plenty powerful for my 23x16x9 room as well. I don't feel like I'm losing anything relative to the F113 or similar. Plus they're visually less imposing. And they're working well placed just behind and outside of my CLX panels.
Your point about woofer size and fast response is something I have observed in woofers but unsure if it is significantly true if the woofer is designed right. Right now I'm using the depth i which uses three 8 inch woofers. Its nice and fast when called on. Wondering if the rythmik 18 inch could do that too. It is an aluminum woofer and the ML is not, wouldnt aluminum help make it fast?
 

Soundidea

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I like to use the sub for both music and movies. So both really. The Rhythmik has the best price. JL audio is more expensive as is REL. Wondering if JL and REL are that much better than the Rhythmik. I was leaning toward JL Audio until i discoverd the Rythmik. Rythmik has a great price i think because they have very little overhead. its only sold direct to the consumer, I think. No advertising etc.

Also figuring I will go dual subs, so the price cant be really high on each. Id be willing to shell out no more than $4k for both.

I thought I would jump in here. I have a pair of ML Montis stats with high end electronics and quality cabling. I use an Oppo 105 for DA, a very cost effective choice if you don't have $ for the best conversion. I have a HTPC with clean P/S, filters and a special USB card. I am a academy award nominated audio recording engineer and have worked with a number of manufacturers over the years providing feedback and research on microphones, amps, connector design and magnetic tape development.

As well as PB of the best recordings and re-masterings, I use the system to also provide a realistic playback environment for practicing my alto sax with backing tracks. I quickly found the Montis speakers could not provide adequate bass levels for overall realistic pb levels for my sax. The 8" bass system was very clean and accurate, but could not provide levels to match the capability of the panels. This would not be an issue for most people. I did not have the money for a pair of larger ML subs, that I had auditioned and were very clean and accurate. I was able to purchase a pair of SVS SB13-Ultra subs at a very discounted price from opened boxes. I contacted both SVS and ML and got group delay charts for the systems to aid in time alignment, as most integration issues stem from this and room interference. This information allowed me to place the speakers so the physical time alignment was very close. One of my amp and conversion designers helped me with this. I think having a pair of subs is important as there are spatial clues in stereo recordings that extend below 125hz and one mono sub does not convey this. The easiest way to align the subs with the stats is to use an oscillator to produce a pure sine wave at the crossover frequency. When the speakers are aligned and in phase, the 80hz tone will be produced at the highest level. As they go out of alignment, the interference reduces the level. Again, the ability to place the subs very close to the bass speaker of the mains is important. The clean impact of the bass material is dependent on proper alignment, even with $10k subs. Descending bass lines of a good recording will reveal this. The phase control on the subs can be used for fine tuning, but not as important as basic physical alignment. I have experience with room treatment, but believe in dead end/live end as a basic starting point. Short term reflections near the speakers from walls, floors and low ceilings cause the most confusion and cancellation. The longer reflections behind the listener can be less destructive to overall integration. The angles of the panels, listener distance and ear height are important to spatial sound field coherence. Since the panels are not the point source of most speakers, this can make a big difference. Now that Dirac has VST 3 room correction plugins, that final step should produce an even better playback accuracy and experience. I have a two channel system as each quality channel is expensive and a 5.1 quality system at this level would be VERY expensive. Music is recorded in stereo! Film dialogue audio in mono. The foundation and clarity of the system has been very satisfying for my retirement! I love the naturalness of ML panels!
Thornhill Living Room 2019-2550px.jpg
 

tsmooth

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Going from a single sub to sealed duals in our theater (Descent Is) and living room (SVS SB-13 ultras) has changed the whole experience with movies and music. Clear, accurate, quick, seamless, and omnipresent are words that come to mind. I would never go back after experiencing the setup both ways. Just another subjective opinion to support previously stated objective opinions from others.
 

Paul172

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Whatever your budget allows no matter SVS, JL Audio, or Rythmik I definitely recommend dual subs! I agree with tsmooth. The impact with two subs is a game changer!
 

Robert D

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Whatever your budget allows no matter SVS, JL Audio, or Rythmik I definitely recommend dual subs! I agree with tsmooth. The impact with two subs is a game changer!
I always thought it wouldnt make a big difference, as long as the single sub puts out the same amount of volume and frequency range as the two would. It is always said that bass is non directional in nature, but I guess not? Its a huge consensus on here that dual is better. So I think when I replace this depth i, I will go with 2 subs that cost just a bit more than what I planned on spending on only 1.
 

Robert D

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How about comparing a single sub that has two woofers to two subs with a single woofer. The two are still superior, right?

Say you took two woofers and 2 amps and put those in a sub, and then took the same amps and woofers and put them into two subs that each contain only one of the woofers and one of the amps. So each sub is powered by the same amps and woofers, just distributed different. Its the fact the woofers are spread out in the room rather than both in the same spot that makes them sound better?
 
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