Long-Time ML Montis User - Experience and Impressions

[Rascal]

Hello Fellow Marin Logan enthusiasts.

It’s been a while since I last contributed, so I’ll keep this short and rely on questions from others to steer the discussion.

I’m a retired research EE with considerable circuit and system design and analysis experience. I’ve also been involved in audio for a long time. I’m 78 and my hearing isn’t wha5 it was at 20 - it falls off past 12 kHz and stereo discernment isn’t what it once was - but what remains is still, IMHO, adequate if not better than many. I own a lot of other gear (speakers, amps, sources) but I’d like to focus here on the Montises.

My wife is a concert pianist and music teacher. She echoes my remarks about the qualities of the Montises’ sound.

My Montises are in an AV room and are used daily both as stereo listening speakers and as the front left and front right speakers in an AV home theater with large screen projection. The Montises are driven by a Benchmark AHB2 which is driven by. Benchmark DAC3. Control of source is via the DAC3: For listening, I use digital and analog sources connected to the DAC3 and control volume with the DAC3; for home theater, the DAC3 runs in home theater mode (fixed level) driven by the L and R outputs of a Denon AV receiver. The center channel speaker, BTW, is a Dynaudio Contour T 2.1 which matches well the Montises. The speaker cables are Blue Jean Canare star quad designs. I tried simpler cables and can hear the improvement.

I’ve gone through a multitude of amps prior to settling on the AHB2. The AHB2 is by far the cleanest I’ve heard, has no trouble handling the Montises, which are highly capacitive loads in the upper registers, and has ample power. Prior amps include a custom modified ADCOM GFA555 (designed by Nelson Pass and modified to improve high frequency power supply bypassing), a pair of custom refurbished McIntosh MC-60s, a custom refurbished Marantz 8B, the Denon AV receiver and its predecessor by Marantz. I personally don’t think tube amplification is the best choice for this sort of load, and only the best solid state designs are clean enough to do these justice.

In the listening area, a room that is very long and a challenge to load, the Montises are rear load by acoustic absorbing panels hung on the brick wall behind. The panels significantly reduce the back image, improve the smoothness and the stereo imaging.

The impression i get from the Montises is, especially, great smoothness and natural rendering of nearly all instruments and voices. This is due, no doubt, because of the fundamental qualities of the electrostatic driver and the utter absence of any crossover effects between midrange and treble. They aren’t great at stereo imaging. It’s part of the nature of large panel transducers. They’re also tricky to position in a room, but by now most of you know this. What they’re great at is sounding musical, accurate and smooth yet revealing.

I don’t think anyone should buy this sort of speaker without a live audition and a solid return if not satisfied policy.

I think this should be adequate for further discussions. Thanks for your attention.

 

[twich54]

Rascal, as a former and long time owner of di-pole speakers I couldn't agree more with your analysis. With that being said and your wife a music teacher / pianist I've yet to hear any transducer at or near the price point of ML that does the piano justice.

 

[Rascal]

Yep — Piano reproduction is tough. The system I own for best handling piano is a pair of KEF 105.1 driven by a custom refurbished Adcom GFA555 and a Benchmark DAC2. Of course, the 105s aren’t made anymore. The high end B&W 800 series are similar in sound but terribly expensive.

A really good listening test is the Argerich-Freire pairing of the Rachmaninoff Suite No. 2, Op 17. A very dynamical recording with spectacular playing.

Obtaining good, faithful piano reproduction requires taming room acoustics, especially with electrostatic speakers. Treatments make a huge difference and can bring out some of the unique dynamics of a piano’s sound. Also experimenting with listening chair and speaker placement helps.

There’s also headphone listening, but that gets complicated and has little to do with the Martin Logan’s.

My wife’s studio boasts a Steingraeber 6’ 9” and a Bluthner Model 2 (around 8’). The studio uses broadloom carpet hanging on the walls and carpets on the floor to attenuate the volume. Without it, the piano sound is so loud that it leads to ringing in the ears. The acoustics are dry as toast but hearing is better preserved. The studio speakers, when listening is called for, are the KEF’s.

 

[Rascal]

For those curious about what a Montis is, it’s an earlier model which was, ultimately, replaced in the line-up with the Impression, the ESL 11A. There are of course similarities and differences, but I believe much of what I’ve described applies to the later model as well.

My objective in launching this thread is offering to share my experiences with this sort of loudspeaker. While my Montises continue to satisfy, and a good pair of used Montises might prove a real bargain, I’d direct purchases toward the newer ESL 11A model.

A write-up comparing the performance of the Montis with that of the ESL 11A was published by a friend and informed audiophile John Gatski:

http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2017/12/audiophile-speaker-review-martinlogan.html

 

[Tmort]

I’ve found stereo imaging with my classic 9’s in a highly acoustic treated room is excellent, prior to the treatments not nearly so.

 

[Rascal]

I can understand that. I’m glad you had success.

 

[wallacefl]

I to grew up with pianist in our house. I have CLS Z2 and have tried various amplifiers driven by Benchmark DACs. The Benchmark AHB2 and the Bryston 14BSST seem to “GET” the piano better than any other amplifiers I have owned.

 

[Rascal]

Thanks for sharing. I'm not familiar with that Bryston, but I own and use the AHB2 and it's the best amplifier pairing with the Montis I've achieved so far. I also use a Benchmark DAC. By best I mean best high frequency output and clarity relative to the rest. It's been the cleanest sounding and airiest. The high frequency region is where the capacitive effect of the transducer is most significant. The low bass of the Montis has always been largely insensitive to the amps I've used (no surprise given the self contained subwoofer amplifier), and the mid-range has never been difficult to get good results with decent amps, both solid state and tube.

My KEF 105s (v1), and the B&W 80xx that I've auditioned through the years seem to achieve the best piano forcefulness and punch, the greatest sense of piano realism of loudspeakers I've heard or owned. Still, the Montis serves up piano reasonably well. Where the Montis really shines, IMHO, is with strings, brass, woodwinds and voice. I really enjoy and appreciate speakers that have little if any crossover effects.

I also have two pairs of Dynaudio speakers (other rooms) with 6 dB/octave crossovers and they too achieve really seamless behavior with these same instruments. One pair is the Heritage Special driven by an NAD M33. The other is the Contour S1.4 LE driven by Benchmark DAC3 and AHB2. They both sound wonderful ... but I only bring them up because of their stellar crossover behavior, an ability and listening experience that the Montis excels at.

 

[Lightloopy]

I heard the SL3 at Overture Audio in 1998 and was converted at that moment and was the gateway drug to the audiophile world. The SL3's were a constant while I made my way through a few SS amps till I got a pair of VTL MB 250 Signature triode monoblocks years ago. No desire for anything else. Then ML had a 20% sale and I got 11A's. After a very, very, very lengthy break in period , they sang and are wonderful.

BTW, my EE friend has my SL3 /MB 250 and always puts a smile on his face. We think VTL has some

I missed the VTL so much I picked up a pair of early VTL MB 450's and enjoying them very much. They can be as finicky as the Lucas system on a TR6, but thankfully my EE buddy will help me with them when they go down!