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Just ordered new CLS II panels...

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lugano

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... and it will take about 6 weeks to get them, from ML to Switzerland, said my local high-end dealer. So in the meantime I would like to read - from those that did it recently - what should I expect. Are the replacement panels different ? (Micro-perf, etc). How long does it take to burn them in ? Any other thoughts you would like to mention are welcomed - the wait will be quite long and I must keep my excitement high :drool:
 
K

karma

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HI lugano,
Me too. I'm waiting for mine and I have the same questions.

Sparky
 

lugano

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HI lugano,
Me too. I'm waiting for mine and I have the same questions.
Hi Sparky, the first one of us to get them *must* share his experience here, with pix and all the enchilada, ok ? :D

(I'll do it anyway, future readers on their way to do it will appreciate for sure).

Anyway, it's a great thing to know that I am not lonely in this. I'll have to shell out $2000 for the new panels and one of the first things I'll do is to shower my old panels, let them dry a week or so and store them safely. With new panels, I can allow myself such an exercise. Another thing which I want to do is to measure the freq response with my equalizer once per day, for the first week, running them 24/24 h. Being an engineer, I trust my ears but I also have a lot of faith in numbers...
 

Jeff Zaret

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I did replace my CLS panels about one ago. They are not the new X-Stat technology. They are made with the new bonding processes and materials so from that point alone they should be better than the original ones they are replacing.

I would say they take about 40 hours or better of playing to break in.

The instructions tell you to install the new panels with two people but it can be done with one. I did mine myself because my dog refused to help me. It is not that difficult at all to do. I do have the instructions and actually I rewrote them for Jim Power at ML. So if you need any insight let me know.

Soapbox time:;)

I am of the opinion I would rather listen to them while they are breaking in than wait. I do not understand why some and it is my opinion only, want to run hours of pink noise. white noise or the same CD. Why not enjoy the journey? I know I have said this before but if you look at it from another analogy it makes more sense. Yes, it is true some components have a certain amount of "break-in" or settling time but would you ignore everything while this happens? If you bought a new car and the dealer said this car will not perform like you want it to for 1000 miles of driving would you not drive it? Would you put it up on blocks and lock the accelerator at 35 miles an hour for 1000 miles. My point is this, we all have great equipment and have invested in these things because they give us pleasure so why not enjoy them because tomorrow is an unknown and wouldn't you be really ****ed it you lost your hearing tomorrow and did not enjoy the rapture of being an audiophile.:eek:


Jeff:musicnote:
 

lugano

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Soapbox time:;)

I am of the opinion I would rather listen to them while they are breaking in than wait. I do not understand why some and it is my opinion only, want to run hours of pink noise.
Jeff, hi and thank you for the info. Now, I fear I was misunderstood. Let me set this straight - I *will* listen at and enjoy them from minute zero - but I spend more time on my job than at home, and our cat will for sure enjoy 90 dB of music the whole day - when we're at work - for a week or so, and it also might keep thieves away as a side effect :) Then comes the weekend, and I'll be mercyless - the GCC's display will show unreached dB figures, stay assured.

btw, I still have your enhanced installation instructions, I will let you know if they made their way into ML's install procedure ;)
 
K

karma

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HI Jeff and lugano,
I bought my CLS II's new. I have been through the break-in once before. I have no romantic feelings about the break-in process. I think it is just a good old Pain In The A**! That is the main reason I waited so long to get new panels.

Furthermore, I think 40 hours is very optimistic. Based upon my first experience, I think it's an order of magnitude more. Round it off to 500 hours. While I think this is true, the majority of the break-in period is done in around 100 hours. They become more or less listenable at around 40 hours. I don't know if the newer panel design will follow this pattern.

More furthermore. I don't think the panels ever quit changing. It's as though they follow an asymptotic curve which never reaches zero. Even now, some 15 years after I bought my original panels, they are still changing. To be sure the changes are much smaller and subtle. The nice part is the speakers keep getting better - more mellow with a major reduction of the small upper midrange glare that’s characteristic of the CLS’s. In other words, in their old age, the speakers are better than ever. That's another reason I did not want to change the panels. I wonder if other CLS veterans have noticed this characteristic.

I’m not even sure I will install the new panels. The only reason I bought the new ones is I was afraid they may become unavailable. I do have a sensitivity loss on the right panel but it is easily balanced. Other than that, the panels perform equally and beautifully. The minor balance problem is little justification to endure the break-in of new panels. I really did hate it.

If I do change the panels, I plan to connect the new panels to an old solid state receiver, stick an antenna wire on it and run the speakers at moderate volume on my classical station during the day when I'm not home. At night, I will listen to them through my tubes. I'm not looking forward to the break-in at all.

Anyway, that was my experience with the original panels. I hope the new ones break–in faster but I’m not betting on it.

Sparky
 

lugano

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The only reason I bought the new ones is I was afraid they may become unavailable.

If I do change the panels, I plan to connect the new panels to an old solid state receiver, stick an antenna wire on it and run the speakers at moderate volume on my classical station during the day when I'm not home.
Exactly my thoughts. With the CLX coming, and the change in ML's ownership, I started fearing that one day I might as well be told "buy new speakers, because we don't support yer olde shite". The CLS II to IIz upgrade is not available anymore, and this fact did pull a trigger in my head. This CLS thing is a huge step in HiFi (who else has 3 square meters of music-radiating devices ?) and we must make sure that we keep it singing. As for breaking-in period, I was not a believer, until I had to live with my new Ps Audio GCC-250, which did require 3 weeks of playing 24/24 to stop sounding like a Bose car audio from the 80's. And break-in is no joke, here's a simple test: take any pair of cables in your current setup and reverse it: listen and decide for yself if cable break-in is bull. And if you conclude that it's not bull, think about everything contained in a typical member of your gear, like a CD Player or a power amp.... capacitors being their ugliest inhabitants.
 
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Jeff Zaret

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Let me clarify something. I think 40 hours of break in is the minimum edge so will it actually take longer, probably, but I believe at about 100 hours it will be in smaller increments than the first 100 hours. I may be wrong but this is what I heard. I did hear a difference right out of the box. Yes the panel was a bit "stiff" and so the low end was lighter but that and the clean high end came soon enough.

Running music or whatever while you are at work is fine my point was, while you are there, enjoy them.:D

Lugano, let me know if the instructions work out for you.


Jeff:musicnote:
 
K

karma

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HI Jeff,
My position is what ever it takes to get through the first 100 hours is what I will do. I understand your point about listening while the process is going on. I agree. If this is a persons first time through the break-in process it is educational to hear the progress. Even I will listen during break-in. But it is kind of like waiting for water to boil. You know the saying that a watched pot never boils?

Another, unstated, part of your point is the panels are not horrible even out of the box. I agree with that too. But, you need to understand my position.

Stated simply, it's very hard to be enthusiastic about new panels if they represent a definite sonic step backwards in my system. Geez, it may take another 15 years before the new panels sound as good as the old panels. Oh well, that's the cost of living with the cranky CLS's. The rewards are definitely worth the irritation. I want to listen to glorious sounds rather than judging if my panels are finally sounding good. It's a process I would never waste my tubes or stylus or CD player on. Using the receiver is a practical answer.

I'm still interested in hearing from other CLS veterans concerning the continuous changing of the panels. I think I will post the question so it will be seen.

Sparky
 

roberto

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HI Jeff,
My position is what ever it takes to get through the first 100 hours is what I will do. I understand your point about listening while the process is going on. I agree. If this is a persons first time through the break-in process it is educational to hear the progress. Even I will listen during break-in. But it is kind of like waiting for water to boil. You know the saying that a watched pot never boils?

Another, unstated, part of your point is the panels are not horrible even out of the box. I agree with that too. But, you need to understand my position.

Stated simply, it's very hard to be enthusiastic about new panels if they represent a definite sonic step backwards in my system. Geez, it may take another 15 years before the new panels sound as good as the old panels. Oh well, that's the cost of living with the cranky CLS's. The rewards are definitely worth the irritation. I want to listen to glorious sounds rather than judging if my panels are finally sounding good. It's a process I would never waste my tubes or stylus or CD player on. Using the receiver is a practical answer.

I'm still interested in hearing from other CLS veterans concerning the continuous changing of the panels. I think I will post the question so it will be seen.

Sparky
Hola Sparky...I also have model CLS, those ones I got them at the end in August of 87. I had a stat panels epidemic and I had to change them several times, and now they have one of the latest version of coating and the panel look is the same as my CLSIIz. What about the sound?...the power supply and the tone shape circuit is the one that makes them to have its own particular sound. Both are great speakers!. I like the midrange of the CLS and the lower bass and highs of the CLSIIz. These are the ones that I listen more often. What I listen now is more combo jazz than any other type of music. The size of the instruments and the scenario are very good on both models. The CLS is more critical and less owners friendly, but when they start to sing, I forget that I was listening to a system, and I start to enjoy the musician(s) playing for me. Also it is more cable dependant. I use silver with them (Kimber) and copper with CLSIIz(Harmonic Tech). My electronics are very simple...one Sonic Frontiers model Power 2 and a harmonic recovery System then the preamp. The truth is that I do enjoy both very much!...hope this can help, happy listening,
Roberto.
 

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