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Hum from Vantage woofer

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jmschnur

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I noticed that when I put my head to the woofer grill I hear a very slight 60 Hz hum from both of my Vantage speakers when they are plugged in are plugged in. The blue light is not on.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Are there S/N consequencies for actual sound?

Joel
 
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twich54

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Joel, As far as I can tell it's completely normal, mine does it, so does every one I've put my ear up to. I spoke with Jim Powers at M / L about it last Dec, he wasn't aware of it at the time. He called me back several days later after they had run a bunch through production and confirmed they all do it ! he could give no further explanation !! It must have something to do with the bass drivers built in amp I suspect.
 

jmschnur

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It may be "normal" but I do not think it should be. My powered subwoofers do not do this.

That being said; the hum is barely audible at 2 feet.

Joel
 

twich54

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jmschnur said:
It may be "normal" but I do not think it should be. My powered subwoofers do not do this.

That being said; the hum is barely audible at 2 feet.

Joel

I agree but nobody at M /L seemed too worried that it would be an issue, time will tell !
 

Joey_V

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I had a similar humm from my Summits.... however, I figured out that my Plinius has a "ground switcher" that I switched to the non-default position and it got rid of the hum. Your hum could be a product of the amp being grounded incorrectly or perhaps a dirty power source. Try to eliminate those possibilities before implicating the Vantage as the culprit.

If nothing works... then maybe it is the Vantages.

Joey
 

musicman

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I notice the same thing with my Vantages since they are new.
 

Tj Bassi

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I had (still have) the same thing with my Descent sub. Thought it was a ground loop problem, and tried a whole array of suggestions offered by forum members. Even hired an electrical analyst to rework our home service panel. Our original problem was a bad ground on the refrigerator outlet which caused the sub to hum quite loudly even when not on (sub and fridge not on same circuit, but grounds were common to both).
Still, it has a faint hum when in standby, even with the M/L suggested power supply mod (cap replacement). I've basically learned to live with it although it does present itself when the home is unusually quiet...

Tj
 

risabet

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Flame proof suit is on!

For a $10,000 (Summit) and $5,000 (Vantage) speaker you should not only expect but receive competent design, i.e. no hum. I too am a fan of ML's but that doesn't equate to acceptance of shoddy design. There is no reason why powered woofers should hum, I've owned and sold a number of stand alone powered woofers and none of them has hummed (outside of correctable ground loops), ever. The fact that ML says they all do it doesn't make it right.
 

garmtz

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Mine also hums. The Vantage is not grounded, so I expect a ground loop is not in order. I think it is due to a close proximity of the different components, notably the transformer on the bottom of the speaker. See insides:

 

jmschnur

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Perhaps with this input ML will look into some design changes for future production. I hope there is also a retrograde fix. (Do they monitor this forum?). By the way I looked extensively for ground loops (induced them removed them, lifted grounds etc. I did not find any in my system. I attached my B&W 801s to the Bryston amp-no 60 hz hum. I plugged my Vantages into several other sources in the house. The hum was always there.

I would be very interested in seeing the specifcations of the amp in terms noise (60hz). We pay a lot for superb amps and premaps to drive our speakers (>110 db s/n). I talked with an engineer at Bryston before buying their 4B sst-C. He said that they had worked very hard to get rid of these types of problems that were not caused by ground loops. He cited their re-design of the transformer. It turns out that the actual power being delivered to our homes can have imperfections in wave form. The assymetry between the top and bottom of a sine wave can cause mechanical hum. The Bryston transformers have been designed to avoid this type of problem. It certainly is possible that the Vantage transformer is close enough to the woofer to tranduce an audible hum form the woofer when the system is plugged in.

It would be a shame if the powered section of the amp in the Vantage was much worse when the speakers are so good.

Joel
 
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attyonline

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risabet said:
For a $10,000 (Summit) and $5,000 (Vantage) speaker you should not only expect but receive competent design, i.e. no hum. I too am a fan of ML's but that doesn't equate to acceptance of shoddy design. There is no reason why powered woofers should hum, I've owned and sold a number of stand alone powered woofers and none of them has hummed (outside of correctable ground loops), ever. The fact that ML says they all do it doesn't make it right.
Well, if you want to complain about design, talk to the guy that designed your home electrical system, or perhaps the people that designed your other hi fi gear. This hum is obviously a ground loop and a very low level one at that. Martin Logan, like every manufacturer of high end audio electronics, assumes you hook up your gear correctly and take appropriate steps to eliminate ground loops.Given the further stated fact that the hum is only audible from two feet away with no signal, a complaint about ML quality on this count seems a bit anal retentive to me.
 

theWB

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risabet said:
For a $10,000 (Summit) and $5,000 (Vantage) speaker you should not only expect but receive competent design, i.e. no hum. I too am a fan of ML's but that doesn't equate to acceptance of shoddy design. There is no reason why powered woofers should hum, I've owned and sold a number of stand alone powered woofers and none of them has hummed (outside of correctable ground loops), ever. The fact that ML says they all do it doesn't make it right.
I would agree,I would hope ML would come up with a solution to this problem.Powered woofers should not hum no matter what the price of the speaker.
 

twich54

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Joey_V said:
I had a similar humm from my Summits.... however, I figured out that my Plinius has a "ground switcher" that I switched to the non-default position and it got rid of the hum. Your hum could be a product of the amp being grounded incorrectly or perhaps a dirty power source. Try to eliminate those possibilities before implicating the Vantage as the culprit.

If nothing works... then maybe it is the Vantages.

Joey
Nothing to do with the Plinius, for it did it with my Rotel and as i said every Vantage I put my ear to not mention again M/L owes up to the "rumble" but no explanation.
 

twich54

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attyonline said:
Martin Logan, like every manufacturer of high end audio electronics, assumes you hook up your gear correctly and take appropriate steps to eliminate ground loops.Given the further stated fact that the hum is only audible from two feet away with no signal, a complaint about ML quality on this count seems a bit anal retentive to me.

Atty, Actually one CAN blame this on M/L, as I stated earlier My conversation with Jim Powers was the first to bring the problem to his attention, again as I said he called me back several days later after a production run of Vantage's and concured......... they ALL do it !! He was unable to give a reason, but said "don't worry about it". Bottom Line______ M/L should fix this I agree, even though the low level rumble is not audible from ones listening position the mere fact that the voice coil is always activated can not be good for the long haul, IMO.
 

attyonline

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Well, Dave, in that case I stand corrected. But if this is a manufacturing defect, it is a bit unsettling that this problem is just now coming to the attention of ML since these speakers have been in production for over six months now I believe. Would have thought many dealers and customers would have brought this to their attention.
 

risabet

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attyonline said:
Well, if you want to complain about design, talk to the guy that designed your home electrical system, or perhaps the people that designed your other hi fi gear. This hum is obviously a ground loop and a very low level one at that. Martin Logan, like every manufacturer of high end audio electronics, assumes you hook up your gear correctly and take appropriate steps to eliminate ground loops.Given the further stated fact that the hum is only audible from two feet away with no signal, a complaint about ML quality on this count seems a bit anal retentive to me.
Actually it isn't a ground loop, ML concurs that the Vantages ALL have this problem. I'm sorry, my cheapo Velodyne doesn't hum at all. If I spend 5K for a speaker the only sounds it should make should originate from the system itself. No self generated noise is acceptable at this or in fact any price point. Ground loops are one thing, do some troubleshooting and you can cure them, this is different. this is an inherent FLAW in what is an otherwise very nice sounding system and should be fixed.
 

Joey_V

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risabet said:
For a $10,000 (Summit) and $5,000 (Vantage) speaker you should not only expect but receive competent design, i.e. no hum. I too am a fan of ML's but that doesn't equate to acceptance of shoddy design. There is no reason why powered woofers should hum, I've owned and sold a number of stand alone powered woofers and none of them has hummed (outside of correctable ground loops), ever. The fact that ML says they all do it doesn't make it right.
Just for the record.... my Summits do not have any hum whatsoever... so it may be purely a Vantage phenomenon. Shouldnt include the Summit in your example, Risabet.

I do recall some hum coming from my Vantages... but it was so minor that I dismissed it and I didnt really care. What I cared about was that ML knows about this issue and if anything were to happen, I know I have the backing of the entire ML company and replacing whatever part is damaged as a result.

Also, I didnt care because I loved my Vantages... they sounded superb to me. The hum is so insignificant to me, that I cant hear it from anywhere other than having my ear next to the bottom grill. And that sort of minor movement will not burn the voice call.

Joey
 

risabet

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Joey_V said:
Just for the record.... my Summits do not have any hum whatsoever... so it may be purely a Vantage phenomenon. Shouldnt include the Summit in your example, Risabet.

I do recall some hum coming from my Vantages... but it was so minor that I dismissed it and I didnt really care. What I cared about was that ML knows about this issue and if anything were to happen, I know I have the backing of the entire ML company and replacing whatever part is damaged as a result.

Also, I didnt care because I loved my Vantages... they sounded superb to me. The hum is so insignificant to me, that I cant hear it from anywhere other than having my ear next to the bottom grill. And that sort of minor movement will not burn the voice call.

Joey
If the Summits don't hum then good, for 10K they shouldn't and that is exactly my point for the Vantages. No 5K speaker should self-generate noises that aren't music. It didn't bother you, that's fine, IMO it is unacceptable. I too have liked the Vantages in demos but that doesn't change the fact that the design is poorly done in this regard.
 

Joey_V

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risabet said:
If It didn't bother you, that's fine, IMO it is unacceptable. I too have liked the Vantages in demos but that doesn't change the fact that the design is poorly done in this regard.
I cant disagree with you here, Risabet.

Joey :)
 

wipper snapper

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While I've had other issues(all are corrected now) with my Summits they do not hum. I didn't notice any hum in the Vantages that I had prior to the Summits either.

Regards
Adrian
 
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