hi, got the electromotion esl

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kisho bhar

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hi, got the electromotion esl and stax sr507

pls see my amazon com review way below too...

hi to all.
am now running these in a 35 sqm space, which seems to be ,
at the least, what they need, or more...with mccormack pre and power amps...
the old spica 60s are still alive and on standby now, for those cds,
requiring not too much accuracy...
which means, over 90 percent of the world's badly recorded cds...

this thing...at times, can be quite good, on same level as the Stax 507 and 323s amp.

nowadays, not easy to find mccormack amps....hoping the designer, Mr Steve,
finds a better way and cheapens the cost of these magical amps...soon.
what a waste to , make the prices so high, and unreachable for many...

do you all recall the very first WATT spkrs ? even back then, these little things
cost few thousand dollars ! and now, unreachable for most.

pls remember, the ML electro ESL, they are juiced up with those tiny DC power supplies...
all static and tight.
so... of course, the music AMP power you need is usually much less , to reach
same levels of loudness you were getting on paper spkrs...
am finding, approx, half the power is enuff to hit 90 dbA levels.

burning in...these spkrs is very necessary...the sound really starts sweetening and opening up...
and then, uggghhh, time to re adjust them in room all over again..

am also finding that song to song, cd to cd,
sometimes it is very necessary to again, RE adjust these super finicky spkrs in room again...
to get that focus in imaging...
duhhh
tiring, but fun, and so far, worth it.

wish i had a second mccormack to keep the spicas going on too... but cant afford their over
7k prices now...

is there a Permanent Place on these forums somewhere, to LIST the cds, and song titles
that we use for critical listening, or, audiophile level properly recorded, harder to find cds ??

pls guide me , to that pls...re starting with cd collection....as there are more, of cds, and LPs,
than files online...some real treasures out there...and i am talking things as old as master tapes
that were recorded with god knows what mics, back in 1959, and being remaastered only on cd...
wow..some of these , sound really 3d and realistic.

my amazon com review below...
have fun in musica.. learn to play an instrument a bit...too, just for kicks.

--------


ML electromotion ESL vs KEF LS50 vs Marantz equipment vs Moon CD player
Bykay bhee on February 19, 2015

pls note, that price is around usd 1000 or so PER SPEAKER, not pair..

Review opinions... for,
Martin Logan Electromotion ESL, aka, ML ESL vs, KEF LS50

both running on Marantz PM 7005 ( abt 60W RMS ) integrated amp AND,

marantz cd 5004, cd player vs...Moon cd230D cd player too...

various audiophile disks ( RR, Opus, etc ) and non audiophile disks played...
for over an hour in a retail shop...,,area which was about 20 feet, by 28 feet, and Height of 15 feet !
Pls note that closest side walls to speakers was about 7 feet away...and we were about 6-10 feet away...

back of spkrs to wall was over 15 feet away...
Temps in shop around 24 C, and about 50-60 percent Humidity....
for either spkr under test, volume control was around 11 to 12 o clock position...

Conclusion first...
with above combination, in a semi quiet shop, we ( 3 of us ) all liked
the ML ESL most,,, with most disks.

things can only improve with better amps.

pls note, that with both spkrs, Some non audiophile disks were simply
aggravating to listen to... just bec, it now becomes apparent how badly
recorded things are on the cd !

one can easily compare the sounds from the ML ESL spkrs, against the
cheap Stax srs 2170 headphone /earspkr system, playing the same cd.... they are not too far apart.
Good enough resolution with this electrostat technology....
but mind you , ML ESL does take a good 5 minutes or more to get up to a Good Clear NICE listenable status...
the first 2 mins are pure junk, as expected.... this is far better than
the more than 1 hour needed as warmup time for older ML ESL types...

with the ML ESL, we found, to our surprise, the bass Quantity was bit too much,
where most reviewers say the bass is anemic ? really ?
and we were not playing rock n roll, played mostly jazz, classic, acoustic, piano, vocals, acoustic and classic guitar
and slower songs... all excellently recorded...perhaps this was bass contribution
thru the above marantz amp maybe...mmm Pls note, that even on solo female
vocals...the qty and quality of bass , from the ML ESL was just right or a tiny bit
too much for some...

surprising was... the Moon 230D cd player , altho giving finer resolution
and far more detail, none of us really Enjoyed it, musically , as the cheap marantz cd 5004...
.the marantz cd 5004 had us smiling and tapping our feet tho.

the KEF LS 50... something might be wrong, because, altho the shop had
burned in for more than 50 hours, to us all, it sounded very metallic and raw and super edgy,,,
and we had to disconnect it after only few minutes.
we might retry this spkr some other day, in some other shop, with different
settings.... we dont think it can be that bad....with all the reviews we see...including
stereophile class A rating ? really ?

Heavy questions remain for the ML ESL...mostly about Cleaning...
this thing allegedly attracts dust, like nobodys business...
ML manual says to use vacuum cleaner every few weeks ??? REALLY MAN ?
if you got Only dust, you are lucky...
did you guys ever think about hydrocarbon particles, aka, Exhaust from cars,
that really love to stick onto its membrane ? chemical reactions might happen...
and this might scare us...
will talk to ML engineers to see how they can clarify or deny these points.

IF you want EVEN MORE ACCURATE, More musical, etc..sounds via
electrostatic tech, you must try more things,
including Quad, better ML ESL types, and other options of Stax and other
electrostatic headphones...

we will be testing next with McCormack amps, and better cd players too...
and perhaps some tube type amps too eh.

at least, one has choices, still, nowadays...to slowly compare
all variables....
but
never forget , how much you Might Enjoy the final musica....

--------- PART TWO SECOND TEST after Purchase below ------------

More will be written after a month or so of severe testing ..

martin logan Electromotion ESL panel speakers Initial Review

2 units of above, used in high resolution CD Music mode.
McCormack pre and power amps used ( most receivers are a joke and not suitable for
higher resolution music )
marantz cd 6005 cd player used
better cables and wires used
high resolution, well recorded music cds ( such as Reference Recordings, Opus, etc ) used as tests.

Room placement was Super Critical. if you dont have space,
you will be wasting the resolution and imaging powers of these spkrs.

For my room,
Distance between spkrs, center to center is abt 5.5 feet...
Rear panel of speaker to wall behind it approx 5 feet proved best
Side walls to center of spkrs, approx 4 feet each.
Listening positon totally critical : i am at about 8 feet, as i sit in High sofa...
top of spkr to ceiling about 4 feet.
( IF my sitting position increases to beyond 10 feet and more..suddenly
you get Tunnel vision sound..as if sound is coming from way out there, in a tunnel...
a bit crappy effect for me...)

These numbers provide decent imaging... but as you strive for better Imaging,
you lose BASS integrity... meaning, Less bass,and also, bass is off time,
with panel spkr higher frequencies...so
if you want IN TIME, bass and all higher frequencies, u must sit Closer
or change spkr positions, etc. ..u will lose a bit of imaging.
this is a Trade off never mentioned.

watch out also for Standing waves, and their Null points
within any room... to test this,, play A-B loop of a short
bass sequence,etc... stand up, walk around the room, noting
the amount and quality of bass...
sit back in your listening position...to see if it is same, and how
it changes... Standing waves, null points, are inherent with room...
not much you can do about it...but Move your listening position...
again, something so top secret, no one mentions this...
this is why some find the bass to be anemic....too.

if you use sub par cds, garbage in , garbage out. Priority one.
if you use lower resolution amplifiers, cd info not accurately played...priority two.
at basic cd player level, we recommend marantz cd 6005 at least.

if you can get furutech fs301 speaker cables, or better grade Straightwire Interconnects,
these are not too crazy expensive and a good start point.

IF YOU ARE much over age 50, pls test your ears... ( simple test,
place your open hands, palms behind your ears as if you have elephant ears...
move them closer and further from back of your ears..if no change, it Might be a good thing...
if you hear far more higher frequencies, you probably Lost high Freq response in ears )

as you get older,
you lose high frequency hearing response...esp for males.
as a kid , you probably could hear well into 18 KHz and over....but
if you can hear over 13KHz and over, now, you are still lucky.
NOTE that lot of Imaging Information is Higher Frequency info...so...
the better your ears, the easier to Place spkrs and get best imaging...
also, never mentioned in any manual

Pls find GOOD cds to test with.

Just as with Stax headphones, you will have the same problem...
less and less cds can be FUN to play in these higher resolution systems,
simply because, most cds are recorded like low class crap.
95 percent of cds will be better off , played in simpler, cheaper paper cone speaker systems
and receivers...etc.

Enjoy and find Truth of Music...
easy if you are a musician ! and play instruments !

Finally, got the stax sr507 headphones and their 323s amp as well.
overall, sound is very close to the martin logan spkrs, but,
many times, i feel the stax headphones are a bit boomy, as it seems to
give off too much in 20 Hz to 100 Hz, and in enclosed space so near your ears...
but overall, good, am happy that i got both to compare things with...
same electrostatic technology !
yaaay.

thanks !
 
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