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Hester24

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My name is Josh! I am a first time ML owner. Just picked up a set of Ascent speakers. Upgrading from my Paradigm hand me downs. I’m new to the high end audio world and hope I don’t annoy anybody with my newbie questions.
 

Reverb

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Welcome, Josh. How are you enjoying your new Ascent speakers?
 

twich54

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Josh, welcome to the fold ! To better help you with amp suggestions what is your budgetary range !
 

Hester24

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Josh, welcome to the fold ! To better help you with amp suggestions what is your budgetary range !
Around 3k looking at the Marantz model 30 integrated or the Arcam SA30 integrated. That have them at my local magnolia store.
 

Brad225

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Welcome Josh. There are a lot of members that will be happy to help you spend you funds on equipment. :)

I have had problems with 2 Marantz Pre-Pros in the last 4 years. I realize you are talking integrated but the problems were not even fixable. I would chose something other than that.
I am sure you will get help from members that are knowledgeable current integrated amps.
 

Hester24

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Welcome Josh. There are a lot of members that will be happy to help you spend you funds on equipment. :)

I have had problems with 2 Marantz Pre-Pros in the last 4 years. I realize you are talking integrated but the problems were not even fixable. I would chose something other than that.
I am sure you will get help from members that are knowledgeable current integrated amps.
That’s good to know thanks! I had a friend recommend the Hegel H120. It’s seems like a good option.
 

Robert D

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Welcome Josh. There are a lot of members that will be happy to help you spend you funds on equipment. :)

I have had problems with 2 Marantz Pre-Pros in the last 4 years. I realize you are talking integrated but the problems were not even fixable. I would chose something other than that.
I am sure you will get help from members that are knowledgeable current integrated amps.
I had one Marantz that was screwed up right out of the box new. It wasnt a small problem either. I cant recall the issue. I bought it from a local store so I was able to return it and they ordered me another one. I ended up getting the highest model they had when I returned it, was scared to get another one like I originally bought. This one has been good.

My other Marantz, which is 10 years old, seems to be having problems now too. The audio randomly cuts out and its on multiple sources. Even no white noise on the channel level setup. Im still trying to figure out whats going on for sure, but something isnt right. its on my secondary theater setup in the basement that doesnt get a lot of use. The PC is hooked up to it for gaming too.

So Im not so sure about Marantz myself now. They do sound great though. I have owned 2 Marantz AVRs now.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Mmm... Integrateds, that's a tough one simply because at that budget, it's a difficult find to seek anything decent that will properly drive stats. Plus these aren't ordinary stats, they're ML's!

Yes, the Hegel would be very good, similary I would very highly recommend the top end Luxman, Yamaha, and Plinius or Vitus Audio but these are way over your budget... If you're not too finicky about tubes, I would also highly recommend CJ, ARC, VTL or MANLEY Labs, they've all got tube integrateds. There's one special kind of tube integrated amp that stopped me in my tracks and drove my previous Quads ESL 2905's and 2912's effortlessly, that was the Kondo Audio Note "Overture" pure Class A 34w with EL34 tubes, it was superb! However, price range was 10grand.

When considering any amplifier for your ML stats, just remember these three things:
1. The 8 Ohm rating on rms must double at 4 Ohms and close to triple at 2 Ohms. If it doesn't have a rms power rating at 4 or 2 Ohms, sadly that amp is going to crap itself.

2. Power in watts although can be great in specs, really doesn't mean much in terms of stable power drive, high current capacity and stable power supplies. Even a handful of pure Class A watts will effortlessly drive stats.

3. If any of the amplfiers you're trying out meet the above points in 1 & 2, then that's the amplifier to get!

Marantz, Arcam, NAD, Rotel and Musical Fidelity are all designed on a certain level, and they all offer great value. However, not all of their gear is capable of driving and controlling stats efficiently. They can burn up, run out of steam and simply shut down due to the notorious impedence swing stats pose. This is an issue with any amplifier. Therefore, those that are well designed will have very stable power supplies, capable of high current and stable voltage, which are the key elements in driving stats properly. Some of the much larger NED'S, Rotel's and Musical Fidelity amplifiers will be fantastic combinations but I'm not sure in what price range these are offered...

Read up on the thread "which amp to use with ML's" it's a good topic and most helpful. Follow those rules and you'll be fine. Listen to what dealers say but don't take their word in gold, after all they're running a business, hence they want the sale! So don't be in a hurry, tread cautiously and make wise choices.

For 3 grand, you might be lucky to even land a carefully used Krell or McIntosh integrated, these sort of amplifiers will easily drive your ML's. Also by just comparing these brands and their power supply designs side by side with the brands that you were considering, there's just no comparison! Just try to lift one up and you'll know the difference right away!

Cheers, RJ
 

Hester24

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Mmm... Integrateds, that's a tough one simply because at that budget, it's a difficult find to seek anything decent that will properly drive stats. Plus these aren't ordinary stats, they're ML's!

Yes, the Hegel would be very good, similary I would very highly recommend the top end Luxman, Yamaha, and Plinius or Vitus Audio but these are way over your budget... If you're not too finicky about tubes, I would also highly recommend CJ, ARC, VTL or MANLEY Labs, they've all got tube integrateds. There's one special kind of tube integrated amp that stopped me in my tracks and drove my previous Quads ESL 2905's and 2912's effortlessly, that was the Kondo Audio Note "Overture" pure Class A 34w with EL34 tubes, it was superb! However, price range was 10grand.

When considering any amplifier for your ML stats, just remember these three things:
1. The 8 Ohm rating on rms must double at 4 Ohms and close to triple at 2 Ohms. If it doesn't have a rms power rating at 4 or 2 Ohms, sadly that amp is going to crap itself.

2. Power in watts although can be great in specs, really doesn't mean much in terms of stable power drive, high current capacity and stable power supplies. Even a handful of pure Class A watts will effortlessly drive stats.

3. If any of the amplfiers you're trying out meet the above points in 1 & 2, then that's the amplifier to get!

Marantz, Arcam, NAD, Rotel and Musical Fidelity are all designed on a certain level, and they all offer great value. However, not all of their gear is capable of driving and controlling stats efficiently. They can burn up, run out of steam and simply shut down due to the notorious impedence swing stats pose. This is an issue with any amplifier. Therefore, those that are well designed will have very stable power supplies, capable of high current and stable voltage, which are the key elements in driving stats properly. Some of the much larger NED'S, Rotel's and Musical Fidelity amplifiers will be fantastic combinations but I'm not sure in what price range these are offered...

Read up on the thread "which amp to use with ML's" it's a good topic and most helpful. Follow those rules and you'll be fine. Listen to what dealers say but don't take their word in gold, after all they're running a business, hence they want the sale! So don't be in a hurry, tread cautiously and make wise choices.

For 3 grand, you might be lucky to even land a carefully used Krell or McIntosh integrated, these sort of amplifiers will easily drive your ML's. Also by just comparing these brands and their power supply designs side by side with the brands that you were considering, there's just no comparison! Just try to lift one up and you'll know the difference right away!

Cheers, RJ
I can’t thank you enough for input! I’ve have been eyeballing a used refurbished McIntosh MA6300 that’s on eBay. But after reading your response I see that is gives no indication that it will play down to 2ohm. So I guess that’s out of the question.
 

Big Dog RJ

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When it comes to McIntosh, they're quite different to the standard SS design amps out there. Such that, they use the Auto-former technology which Mac has been using for decades. The Auto-formers are capable of delivering high current standards to the power supply in a more linear manner. So Mac power amps that are rated at certain rms power ratings will output that full power regardless of impedence drop. For example, if the MC452 can deliver 450w at an Ohm load, it will deliver that power across 6, and 4 Ohm loads. It will not swing... The more upgraded MC462 delivers even more current, and these are excellent amps partnered with panels. They will drive them, no stress!

However, there are certain models of Mac gear that do struggle a bit and those are the 100 to 150w power amps, they are more comfortable driving benign loafs not so much stats. However, any of their big boys will certainly cruise along... you'd have to try them out and see which ones drive your stats more efficiently.

Hope that helps, cheers
RJ
 

MisterB

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When it comes to McIntosh, they're quite different to the standard SS design amps out there. Such that, they use the Auto-former technology which Mac has been using for decades. The Auto-formers are capable of delivering high current standards to the power supply in a more linear manner. So Mac power amps that are rated at certain rms power ratings will output that full power regardless of impedence drop. For example, if the MC452 can deliver 450w at an Ohm load, it will deliver that power across 6, and 4 Ohm loads. It will not swing... The more upgraded MC462 delivers even more current, and these are excellent amps partnered with panels. They will drive them, no stress!

However, there are certain models of Mac gear that do struggle a bit and those are the 100 to 150w power amps, they are more comfortable driving benign loafs not so much stats. However, any of their big boys will certainly cruise along... you'd have to try them out and see which ones drive your stats more efficiently.

Hope that helps, cheers
RJ
Spot on. I would also add that some McIntosh, like the MA252 and MA352 hybrid tube integrated models use direct coupled SS amps. No autoformers. I'm using an MA352 right now until my C2700/MC462 combo comes in. The MA352 isn't a bad unit, but (as I found out) not the best match for ML panels. It lacks the smoothness and control of the autoformer based amps, and it's pretty apparent when you A/B them back to back.
 

Big Dog RJ

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The C2700 & MC462 is a great combination!
With stats, that should be some real fine tunes. Over a few demos containing Mac gear, I have noticed that some combinations don't work quite well on stats. Also on ribbons. I remember we demoed one for customer who had purchased my Maggie's MG3.5's. Can't remember the exact Mac amp but it was a 200w power amp and for the first time, I turned the volume level all the way up full! It was like a quiet lullaby... couldn't hear much. Didn't have dynamics, no transients, no juice, pretty flat! Then we hooked up the monoblock version of that, and then things began to open up nicely. So it's a matter of finding the right fit.

A mate of mine had ordered the Maggie's 30.7's and the first ever pair (4 panel system) Landed in Melb about two years ago. He was using the C53 & MC462. It was a definite improvement over the MC452. Although it was pretty good, the room setup was out of whack, had far too many other speakers in the same room, including triple stacked horns! Huge dinosaurs... right behind the Maggie's, not a good idea.

Anyway, Mac is always solid stuff, will outlast most gear towards three generations...
Their new tube gear is quite versatile, very pricey stuff though. I think Mac is one of those great American icons that also maintains top customer service, where many others fall short...

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
 
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SomeGeoffGuy

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A mate of mine had ordered the Maggie's 30.7's and the first ever pair (4 panel system) Landed in Melb about two years ago. He was using the C53 & MC462. It was a definite improvement over the MC452. Although it was pretty good, the room setup was out of whack, had far too many other speakers in the same room, including triple stacked horns! Huge dinosaurs... right behind the Maggie's, not a good idea.
That was my first combo - I tried a 200 wpc MAC6700 Receiver into some .7 maggies. BAD COMBINATION. It sounded awesome when you turned it up to 90%, but the amp got so hot you couldn't touch it. Got some Klipsch and I rarely get it over 50% now.

I haven't tried the 6700 with my Aerius yet - need to put that on my to do list!

-Geoff
 

Brazillnut

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I sell Martin Logan Speakers and have had great luck with the Rotel RA1592 II . It is a very nice sounding amp and puts out 350 per channel at 4 Ohms. I personally use the Edge A from Cambridge Audio with my ESL 11as. Even at 200wpc into 4 ohm, it is more than enough to drive them to great levels and dynamics. Having the self- powered woofers in the 11As also really helps there as well. Welcome to the club.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Attn: Josh

There's one other amplifier that I very very highly recommend, that will grab those Ascents by their tails! It's pure Class A and can drive stats effortlessly and will be what is referred to as the "end game " in integrateds.

The Pass Labs INT 60

It's a force to reckon with and something to think about in the future when finances permit...
Cheers, RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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Yes, I've tired various SS on stats, from Quads to ML's: Boulder, Dartzeel, Bryston, Plinius, Vitus Audio, Lamm Audio, Parasound, Conrad johnson and a few others... all were really great in their own regard, having certain attributes compared to others. However, when it comes to Pass Labs, there's just something different about this particular combination that gets it so perfect! Very well balanced and nothing of too much, supreme control overall.

Outstanding!
Cheers, RJ
 
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