Help with new compact ML system

[andrewcoffin]

Hi - New MartinLogan owner and enjoying putting my system together. I have an interesting dilemma though --

I ordered a Motion 30 for my center channel. (I started building the system around the compact Motion 2i/4i/8i models. They are impressive for their size, but I decided I wanted to go with the fuller sound of the 15/30 bookshelf speakers for the front channels.)

Found a great price on a set of Motion 15 speakers -- really impressed with them.

Then found a solid price on a Motion 30, but what arrived in the mail yesterday was ... a Motion 30i.

I suppose I should be happy with that. I got the newer model 30i for well under current retail. But, two things bug me a little: I actually liked the look of the metal grills on all the other ML speakers I've mentioned, and now my fronts don't quite match visually.

So, a few questions for those of you who have experience with these speakers and might know:

1) Is there anything more than an aesthetic difference between the 30 and the 30i? ML lists a few improvements on their product description page, but do they amount to much? Maybe I should return the the 30i and just find the speaker I originally wanted.

2) Is there any chance that the grill from the Motion 30 is available for purchase from ML and would fit on the Motion 30i? It's a minor thing, but, if that worked, that would satisfy any of my issues about the different appearance.

On another front -- I have quite a few ML speakers at home at the moment -- starting with the original combination I purchased, two 4i, two 2i, one 8i, and a Dynamo 800x sub. I've now added to that two 15s and the 30i. I intend to make the 15s my fronts, the 30/30i my center, and keep the sub. Any suggestions on the best way to utilize the remaining speakers? The 8i will definitely be returned. The 2i speakers are currently wall mounted as my rear surrounds. I could move the 4i speakers there. I don't have a very good room for Atmos, though it would be fun to try. Has anyone used 2i/4i speakers as the height speakers for Atmos? If so, what's the best way to do that?

Thanks for your help and advice.

 

[ttocs]

1. The dust caps on the cones are different, but other than that it looks to be cosmetic.

I have the 4 and 4i models, and the only changes I could determine are how the grill is attached, thus the slight variation in the look. So, while I don't bet, I'd be willing to take someone's money that I'm correct in saying the grills are not interchangeable.

I was using my 4 and 4i speakers for Surround and Rears, then replaced them with IW's, which then meant I could use the 4 and 4i's for ATMOS in a 9.1.4 setup. They worked well as surrounds - even though my room is a bit big for them - and very well for ATMOS. I don't use conventional wisdom in my setup and crossover the bass from them very high, which right now is 150Hz. The Bass Management sends all the bass for Small speakers to my Large Fronts, so high XO's work very well. The IW speakers are more capable so they are crossed at 100Hz.

 

[andrewcoffin]

1. The dust caps on the cones are different, but other than that it looks to be cosmetic.

I have the 4 and 4i models, and the only changes I could determine are how the grill is attached, thus the slight variation in the look. So, while I don't bet, I'd be willing to take someone's money that I'm correct in saying the grills are not interchangeable.

I was using my 4 and 4i speakers for Surround and Rears, then replaced them with IW's, which then meant I could use the 4 and 4i's for ATMOS in a 9.1.4 setup. They worked well as surrounds - even though my room is a bit big for them - and very well for ATMOS. I don't use conventional wisdom in my setup and crossover the bass from them very high, which right now is 150Hz. The Bass Management sends all the bass for Small speakers to my Large Fronts, so high XO's work very well. The IW speakers are more capable so they are crossed at 100Hz.

Thanks! The more I look at pictures of the two speakers, the more it seems that you are probably correct — the two grills are not likely to be interchangeable.

Am I correct in thinking that the retail of the Motion 30 was $700 and the retail of the Motion 30i is $850? Seems like a hefty price bump for cosmetic changes.

 

[ttocs]

The specs under the Specs/Lit tab are copied and pasted, identical, including weight.

The only visual difference I can see that might lead to an increased price is the addition of bi-wire binding posts, and a choice of three finishes. I doubt that would account for a $150 difference however, but yes, that's the price difference.

 

[andrewcoffin]

Since my first post, I have now progressed to this set of speakers:
L + R — Martin Logan Motion 15
C — Martin Logan Motion 50XT
Surrounds — Martin Logan Motion 4i
Sub — Martin Logan Dynamo 800x

I’m not sure I’m quite there yet though. I’ve heard some great sound coming through this arrangement, but watching the Super Bowl and some TV afterwards last night I wasn’t happy with the mix at all. The 50XT, which I’ve read great things about and should be more than enough, considering the size, felt weak and hollow. The sound almost felt recessed. After trying the 8i, I stepped to the 30i, and thought both were pretty good – but not quite capable of reproducing the sound from my previous, massive JBL Studio 235C.

I bought the Motion 50XT refurbished from Safe & Sound, so there’s a chance something is just not right with the speaker.

I’ve been doubtful about the calibration that my Sony STR-DN1080 is performing with these speakers, though. So ... now that there are some Denon AVR-X2700H’s back in stock, I’ve ordered one to try out. (I know about the HDMI 2.1 issues, but options are limited for receivers right now.) Any thoughts on how the Denon will perform with the Motions vs the Sony? I expect the Audyssey calibration should do a better job than Sony’s very simple calibration system.

 

[spkrdctr]

Well, as many on here will tell you and I agree. After you run Audyssey with your new Denon, listen to it and if it doesn't sound right, go into the setup and change the volume levels until it sounds correct to you. A center channel that is not loud enough would also sound weak. Don't blindly trust room EQ. It might work very well, but if not, set it to your tastes. Most people like the center and the rears a little hotter than the Left/Right speakers. Not a lot but a little louder will not hurt anything. Just fiddle with it until it sounds right to you.

Concerning your center channel. That speaker should rock your room by itself! 6.5 inch drivers will really kick out the sound.If it is working correctly then something is wrong. To make sure your center is healthy and working well, unplug or turn down all the other speakers so you are only powering the center. Then crank it up some. It should play loud. If it doesn't then you have a problem. Most people have no idea how well these big centers produce volume and authority. Let us know how it goes!

 

[18000rpm]

Rather than replacing your receiver, I suggest you get a dedicated 3-channel amp from Emotiva or Monolith to drive your 3 front speakers. You should hear a significant improvement. Emotiva offers 30-day return no questions asked so you can safely give it a try.

 

[andrewcoffin]

Rather than replacing your receiver, I suggest you get a dedicated 3-channel amp from Emotiva or Monolith to drive your 3 front speakers. You should hear a significant improvement. Emotiva offers 30-day return no questions asked so you can safely give it a try.

Thanks for the replies. I’m going to run some tests this weekend with the center connected to the old and new amps.

A dedicated amp for the fronts is a good idea — I used to run a system like this, with an older high end Denon and a B & K 2-channel amp for the L & R. I left that behind when I needed a receiver that could handle 4K decided to simplify the system. Now, neither the DN1080 or the X2700H has pre-outs, so unless I step up to the X3700H (which I think is the lowest Denon model with pre-outs?) then that’s not an option here.

 

[18000rpm]

Wow didn't realize those receivers do not have pre-outs, that sucks.

FYI the Motion 50XT is a 4-ohm speaker (although the specs say it works with 4/6/8 ohm amps) and your receiver is rated for 6-16 ohms so it probably has some difficulty driving it. That might be the reason it doesn't sound good.

The Motion 50XT also allows bi-amping, and better receivers let you use unused channels for bi-amping. Your Sony seems to allow that but maybe for the front left/right channels only. STR-DN1080 | Help Guide | Connecting 5.1-channel speaker system with bi-amplifier connection

On the other hand, for lower-end receivers the benefits of bi-amping may be limited as they are rated for 2-channel output and as more channels are driven the overall power quickly drops.

I think you need better amplification. From my past experience dedicated amps make a HUGE improvement.

 

[spkrdctr]

I just looked at the Denon 2700. I would send it back. It has no pre-outs at all. My inexpensive Yamaha has a left/Right pre-out which is exactly what you need to really bring in the power for your system. I looked at the Denon 3700 and I believe it has pre-outs but you would want to double check. Also any unused channels on the 3700 allows for more power to your channels that you are using. So, if you upgrade to the 3700 all your trouble might go away. If it still needs more power than adding a two or three channel amp for the front L/R and center will boost your power by a large amount. Then you will easily reach 100 db from your system and that is ear damaging. Also, what are your room size measurements? If you are in a larger size room that may need more power to get the levels where you want them.