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transam

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Don't hang me from a tall tree but i put a black cloth behind the panel of my ascents. They sound alot better, deeper blacker back grounds, sharper focus. Yeah you can't see through them. I'll just have to suffer listening to music with a big smile on my face.
 

Joey_V

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transam said:
Don't hang me from a tall tree but i put a black cloth behind the panel of my ascents. They sound alot better, deeper blacker back grounds, sharper focus. Yeah you can't see through them. I'll just have to suffer listening to music with a big smile on my face.
Dont you completely lose the dipole effect?

Pics?
 

C.A.P

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never tried it with Logans but did it with Magies and had good results . sound goes through the cloth at a slower rate
 

Craig

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How close are the speakers from your front wall? I would suspect that the cloth drape upgrade is compensating for unfavorable room acoustics or less than optimal speaker positioning. If you can figure out what those particulars acoustic issues are and correct them then I'll bet your speakers will sound even better than with cloth draped over the back.

You might try moving the speakers further from the front wall and or side walls. Perhaps absorbtion on the front wall and/or diffusion on the first reflection points of your side wall may have positive results as well. By blocking the backwave and not having good room acoustics you are probably not hearing what your speakers are capable of with imaging and soundstaging.
 

SteveInNC

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transam said:
Don't hang me from a tall tree but i put a black cloth behind the panel of my ascents. They sound alot better, deeper blacker back grounds, sharper focus. Yeah you can't see through them. I'll just have to suffer listening to music with a big smile on my face.

I actually did the same thing as a test when I originally got my Ascents because the hard wall behind them made them too bright. I hung a terry-cloth towel over the back and it made a big difference, enough so that I rearranged all of the furniture in my room to position the speakers against some bookshelves to help break up the rear reflection.

I'd love to have a dedicated listening room so that I could do rear wall room treatments with less concern for general aesthetics.
 

Reverb

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I too have hung terry cloth towels on the wall behind my speakers as a cheep acoustic treatment. Draping the towel over the back of the speaker will minimize the back wave from your speakers defeating the dipolar effect, but it will show you how your speakers are interacting with your room.
 

SugarMedia

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I ran into a weblink many months back, but can't seem to find it now.

Anyway there is a company that produces a box that fits right onto the back of ML's stat panel. It made the speaker look like one tall rectangle.

Anyone else seen this?
 

DTB300

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SugarMedia said:
Anyway there is a company that produces a box that fits right onto the back of ML's stat panel. It made the speaker look like one tall rectangle. Anyone else seen this?
Yeah...I rememeber this too - like a large box open on the side where the panel was but seal up the other three sides behind the panel. I thought they made it for the Aeon initially, but like you cannot remember the company.

Dan
 

SugarMedia

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DTB300 said:
Yeah...I rememeber this too - like a large box open on the side where the panel was but seal up the other three sides behind the panel. I thought they made it for the Aeon initially, but like you cannot remember the company.

Dan
That's exactly it Dan, and it must have been for the Aeon as it was during the time I was doing extensive searches about that particular speaker.
 

Gordon Gray

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How To Tame Back Reflection

I've been listening to various ML's over the last twenty years (CLS2A's, Aerius, SL3's, and now Summits) with a "reflective" back wall. Lots of glass to be specific. I agree with one response that suggested you need horizontal space between the back of the speaker and the back wall. I've had 4 to 5 feet in all my listening spaces.

In addition to this, I've used blinds on the window (great way to tune because you can adjust the blind opening to attenuate the back wave with infinite adjustment options) and now plants in my new house with the Summits.

My experience is that you can use these methods to fine tune the "liveliness" of the room. If you overdamp, you'll loose the wonderful three dimensional soundstage that all ML's can recreate.

Experiment with this and I believe you'll find the optimum balance between too bright and too dark. Use well recorded CD's containing female vocals. Holly Cole and Patricia Barber are good examples. Have fun.

Gordon
 
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DTB300

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Gordon Gray said:
My experience is that you can use these methods to fine tune the "liveliness" of the room. If you overdamp, you'll loose the wonderful three dimensional soundstage that all ML's can recreate.

Experiment with this and I believe you'll find the optimum balance between too bright and too dark. Use well recorded CD's containing female vocals. Holly Cole and Patricia Barber are good examples. Have fun.
Gordon...Excellent point. I have added some amount of absorption behind my CLS2z's and love the improvement it made. With experimentation, I found a nice balance between too much and too little. Each of us should experiment with absorption and diffusion and find what we like best.

Dan
 

SugarMedia

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I just evenly hung two bathing towels behind my Aeon-i's and can not say I was impressed with what I heard.

Listening to Patricia Barber's Modern Cool, (a cd I now know by heart) I thought her voice sounded some what muffled and not centered. I also though that there was a major lack of soundstage... specifically meaning that it didn't produce the holographic imaging I am accustomed to.

Definitely not for me.
 

Reverb

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SugarMedia said:
I ran into a weblink many months back, but can't seem to find it now.

Anyway there is a company that produces a box that fits right onto the back of ML's stat panel. It made the speaker look like one tall rectangle.

Anyone else seen this?

It's made by ASC, the same makers of Tube Traps.



Engineers at ASC have hot rodded Aerius, the popular hybred electrostat by MartinLogan. We’ve added the ASC-BackBox behind the treble range electrostatic panel to attenuate the back wave without loading, dulling or colorizing the front wave. Now this great speaker can be pushed up against walls and corners, to the side of projection TV s and even in-wall pockets without changing its fantastic sound. The ASC-Aerius BackBox was conceived by, prototyped and voiced by Art Noxon, acoustic engineer and long time fan of ML speakers.


The ASC-Aerius BackBox is snug fit and sculpted specifically for the lines of this great speaker. It cuts the rear fire by 7dB and retains full bandwidth brightness and clarity of the forward firing sound. It is not yet an authorized accessory, although it has been submitted to MartinLogan for review and comment which to date has been positive.
The ASC-Aerius BackBox was developed because of repeated requests to ASC from hi-fi and home theater users to help fit this speaker into tight corners while retaining it’s crystal clear sound. Traditionally, sound panels would be installed to cover the walls and corners behind the speaker. Now, the ASC-BackBox eliminates the need for acoustic conditioning panels and bass traps.


The electrostatic sheet of the ML speaker is sensitive to changes in the acoustic impedance of the air behind it. The process of the ASC-BackBox development was guided by blind A/B testing of the speaker with and without the BackBox, modifications were made to the basic BackBox design until there was no discernable difference in treble range voice of the speaker, with and without the BackBox. At that point, it became the sanctioned, ASC-BackBox. An added bonus was that that with the quieting of the back wave came a discernable increase in explosive power, strength in attack transients and bottom end. And that’s also good, especially for home theater applications.


With this technical breakthrough in acoustical impedance matched attenuation baffles, we are looking forward to developing ASC-BackBoxes for other MartinLogan models on a request basis. However, the next BackBox project here will probably targets Art’s personal set of original CLS speakers.


ASC is currently looking for product reviewers, beta test sites, and trial dealers. MSRP is for the ASC-Aerius BackBox is $650/pair.


Call 1-800-ASC-TUBE (west coast)
 
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Reverb

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Your welcome Sugar.

Keep in mind this is from a few years back, anyone interested in this product should check with ASC to see if they are still producing it.
 

transam

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Craig said:
How close are the speakers from your front wall? I would suspect that the cloth drape upgrade is compensating for unfavorable room acoustics or less than optimal speaker positioning. If you can figure out what those particulars acoustic issues are and correct them then I'll bet your speakers will sound even better than with cloth draped over the back.

You might try moving the speakers further from the front wall and or side walls. Perhaps absorbtion on the front wall and/or diffusion on the first reflection points of your side wall may have positive results as well. By blocking the backwave and not having good room acoustics you are probably not hearing what your speakers are capable of with imaging and soundstaging.
My speaker panels are 2.5 feet from the back wall and 2 feet from the sides. I have a front projecter with curtains covering everything but the screen. I tried moving the speakers out and it sounded like poop. I feel that the back wave bounces around messing up the front wave. How is the bass when you have 5 feet behind the speaker? With a rat shack meter i hit 102 db with out a sub! As far as " probably not hearing what my speakers are capable of " i know what a good system sounds like being in the business for 9 yrs.
 

Robin

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Dipolar focusing...

transam said:
Don't hang me from a tall tree but i put a black cloth behind the panel of my ascents. They sound alot better, deeper blacker back grounds, sharper focus. Yeah you can't see through them. I'll just have to suffer listening to music with a big smile on my face.
transam,

I agree with Dan... IMHO, adjusting your room's absorption and / or diffusion - to find what sound's best to your ears is the key. Making sonic alterations are the ticket to making your HT room get the most out of your Ascents. One of the reasons I experimented with and eventually hung my Script i's from the cieling was to use the cieling's uneven surface to better control the sound of the Script i's in my HT. It just sounded better in the negative space of my HT. ;) Good Luck, "Trust your ears." :D

HTH
 

Craig

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The ASC-Aerius BackBox was developed because of repeated requests to ASC from hi-fi and home theater users to help fit this speaker into tight corners while retaining it’s crystal clear sound.
I see how this product could be useful in situations where the speaker had to be placed in confined areas.
 

Reverb

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Craig said:
I see how this product could be useful in situations where the speaker had to be placed in confined areas.
Should be a good product for Script owners.
 

miljac

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Another way ....

After buying the Ascents we spent some money on buying a couple of ficus benjamini that thave found their places behind the speakers (was recommended by the people in the shop where I bought them). Was quite an improvement. Put some lighting below, a nice way to improve sound & enjoy evening listening.
 
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