Happy owner of CLSIIZ anc CLX ART

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roberto

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Yes, not exactly a crossover, but it has a network as a tone shape...I still have their sound in my mind, in my brain. I had all the CLSs models and they are fantastic for small orchestras or combos. The piano coherence is incredible and also the voices. They are projected to the space, with much resolution and timbre. If you could "tuned" their bass energy to your seating position you will have a fantastic speakers with wide stage and truly sense of 3D. Use tube amps, they love tubes.
 

roberto

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The CLX model is a total different beast. The stat panels are built with micro perf tech making the diaphragm to be exposed to the air about 40% more than the old tech. Also the bass is granted via double bass stat panels. Here is a better explanation about the CLX model: MartinLogan | CLX Art
 

DDzCLX

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Yes, not exactly a crossover, but it has a network as a tone shape...

On the CLX, please clarify your comment. I have rebuilt the network and recreated the schematic, there is filtering that directs the signal to either the low or mid/high frequency panels. How is this not a cross over?

Here is a link that has some interesting mods for the CLX including a sketch of the x-over (#34).
 
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roberto

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On the CLX, please clarify your comment. I have rebuilt the network and recreated the schematic, there is filtering that directs the signal to either the low or mid/high frequency panels. How is this not a cross over?

Here is a link that has some interesting mods for the CLX including a sketch of the x-over (#34).
I asked long time ago to Mr. Jim Power, one of the designer of the CLSs and that was his response. A crossover will cut +- 6dB dB at certain frequency. What he explained to me was that the circuit was a tone shape. The speaker at the sides still have high frequencies, so the tone shape acts as a filter to bring the whole speaker to have the best frequency response possible. Some CLS model have an internal switch where you can add mid range about +3dB as I do recall. It is not a crossover.

With the CLXs there are four doubled dedicated bass panels and there is a crossover. The frequency cut is @360Hz. It is a totally different design than its cousin beast the CLSs. The CLXs represents what Martin Logan have learned after 25 years of making electrostatic speaker. I have the model Art and they really sing. You have to get accustomed to them too. Still I miss the sound of the CLSs. The magic from both are that: magic. I have used a lot different type of amplifiers to drive them, SS and tubes and now I have 5 years using a Conrad Johnson Classic One SE driving them. I am really in heaven listening this monster driving them. And they do sound fantastic.

Yes, there are mods for the CLXs, and I never had the opportunity to listen a CLX modified. I don't know if I would do that, the transparency and the quality sound that I am getting is marvellous. My ears love what I am hearing. The wide stage, the harmonic texture of the musical instruments, the timbre, the size of the instruments. the dynamics, the way that the musician expresses his feeling playing, the communication between the musicians at the stage...the voices are projected to the air without any sore throats. I am rediscovering all my music with my system. I really love all. Don't get me wrong, what I get is what the recording is presenting. A bad recording is that, a bad recording. But the benevolence of this speaker is to extract more what it is good, and leave behind what it is wrong or bad. In other words, you hear more good things than bad ones. So I am enchanted with them and enjoying my music as never before. These CLXs are just the best speakers that I ever owned. Them with Conrad Johnson gear are singing just right!
Happy listening!
 
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DDzCLX

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I asked long time ago to Mr. Jim Power, one of the designer of the CLSs and that was his response. A crossover will cut +- 6dB dB at certain frequency. What he explained to me was that the circuit was a tone shape. The speaker at the sides still have high frequencies, so the tone shape acts as a filter to bring the whole speaker to have the best frequency response possible. Some CLS model have an internal switch where you can add mid range about +3dB as I do recall. It is not a crossover.
I'm referring to the CLX (not CLS). CLX has a cross-over with slope of 6dB per octave for the bass panel, there are also switches (not in the manual) which reduce bass panel output by 0,1 or 2 dB dependant upon which position(s). As I'm sure you are aware there is also an add on filter for the Descent I subwoofers that roll off the the high frequencies fed to the sub for enhanced integration with the CLX (tone shaping?), the newer Balanced Force subs do this with software/room correction.
 
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roberto

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Yes, the switches in standard position are set for flat response, then you can add 1 dB or 2 dB at the mid range. I had tried it, but my ears are not that good to find any substancial difference, so I went back to the standard position. Perhaps could be a more room dependant. My room is small...I am building soon a new house away from the city. It is too noise now, so I am moving to the country side. I chose a neighbour where is quiet and no big trucks around. I have a small river at the back of the property and the water sound is very relaxing.
 

Brad225

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DDzCLX I would agree with everything that Roberto is saying.

Try the switch and see what you think. I have not heard anyone that has commented on it say that they liked it better. That doesn't mean you won't or others don't just what has been commented on.

As for the circuit upgrade for subs. I added them to my 4 depth i and was very happy with the control I have in blending them with the CLX's.

Did you do the crossover changes to you CLX? If you did, what were the changes in the sound?

Incase you were not aware Roberto is a ML dealer and is well respected for his knowledge and wisdom.
I am not in any way suggesting you were conveying that just letting you know his credential relating to his information.

Let us know how your system is going forward. We all love to hear each others stories.

Brad
 

Robert D

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Yes, the switches in standard position are set for flat response, then you can add 1 dB or 2 dB at the mid range. I had tried it, but my ears are not that good to find any substancial difference, so I went back to the standard position. Perhaps could be a more room dependant. My room is small...I am building soon a new house away from the city. It is too noise now, so I am moving to the country side. I chose a neighbour where is quiet and no big trucks around. I have a small river at the back of the property and the water sound is very relaxing.
You must be very excited to build new! We've had 2 homes built and it's my favorite way to buy a home. Will you be building a home theater or dedicated listening room?
 

roberto

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Yes, at last I’m going to build a dedicated room. I wiil add one foot wider at my front wall. Kind of isosceles trapezoid shape. Also the ceiling at the wider side is going to have a foot taller. This shape will help to break the low frequency resonances inherent in all rooms. The standing waves are sometimes difficult to cure. I have a friend who has this room. He does not has a ML speakers. He owns Focal JM Labs. I can listen to the music there. He has a nice balanced sound. The size that I’m thinking would be 22’x18’x8’. I can change all this. I like small rooms. Not too big. Intimacy sound is what I like. Of course, I am very open for suggestions!!!

happy listening!
 

Leporello

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I was unaware the CLX incorporated an actual crossover and a separate bass panel. I only heard them once or twice, at audio shows in NYC. They certainly had prodigious bass, though I never got to test them with my own choice of program material. But one thing always perplexed me: The CLX was speced as 55-23,000 hz +/- 3dB, whereas the CLS II at 35-20,000 hz +/- 2dB. I realize frequency response figures for speakers, without any regard for the room they're in, are to be taken with a grain of salt (my CLSII's, for example, have a peak at around 40hz in my listening room, and drop off sharply below that). But if the bass performance of the CLX is so far superior why are the manufacturers own specs inferior regarding bass performance?
 

Robert D

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Yes, at last I’m going to build a dedicated room. I wiil add one foot wider at my front wall. Kind of isosceles trapezoid shape. Also the ceiling at the wider side is going to have a foot taller. This shape will help to break the low frequency resonances inherent in all rooms. The standing waves are sometimes difficult to cure. I have a friend who has this room. He does not has a ML speakers. He owns Focal JM Labs. I can listen to the music there. He has a nice balanced sound. The size that I’m thinking would be 22’x18’x8’. I can change all this. I like small rooms. Not too big. Intimacy sound is what I like. Of course, I am very open for suggestions!!!

happy listening!
That's great. I hope you post up a picture once it is all done.
 

DDzCLX

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DDzCLX I would agree with everything that Roberto is saying.

Try the switch and see what you think. I have not heard anyone that has commented on it say that they liked it better. That doesn't mean you won't or others don't just what has been commented on.

As for the circuit upgrade for subs. I added them to my 4 depth i and was very happy with the control I have in blending them with the CLX's.

Did you do the crossover changes to you CLX? If you did, what were the changes in the sound?

Incase you were not aware Roberto is a ML dealer and is well respected for his knowledge and wisdom.
I am not in any way suggesting you were conveying that just letting you know his credential relating to his information.

Let us know how your system is going forward. We all love to hear each others stories.

Brad
I'm not disagreeing with anything Roberto is saying about CLS, I've never owned them nor have I taken them apart.

On the CLX, my comment was that it does indeed have a cross over. The switches reduce the output of the bass panels (add series resistance to the signal fed to the panels), they do not increase the output of the midrange, however, by decreasing the output of the bass panels the output from the midrange relative to the bass would seem to increase. Lets not get hung up on semantics.

In the end the CLX are an outstanding speaker.
 

Don Camillo

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I have used a lot different type of amplifiers to drive them, SS and tubes and now I have 5 years using a Conrad Johnson Classic One SE driving them.

Nice to hear, I like good tube gear....
But the Conrad Johnson Classic One SE is a Pre amp isnt it?.. Which Power amps do you use then? Also CJ?
 

Don Camillo

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I was unaware the CLX incorporated an actual crossover and a separate bass panel. I only heard them once or twice, at audio shows in NYC. They certainly had prodigious bass, though I never got to test them with my own choice of program material. But one thing always perplexed me: The CLX was speced as 55-23,000 hz +/- 3dB, whereas the CLS II at 35-20,000 hz +/- 2dB. I realize frequency response figures for speakers, without any regard for the room they're in, are to be taken with a grain of salt (my CLSII's, for example, have a peak at around 40hz in my listening room, and drop off sharply below that). But if the bass performance of the CLX is so far superior why are the manufacturers own specs inferior regarding bass performance?
That is strange indeed....
The specs are always measured in a anechoic chamber... and to have it always or usually play 20 hz lower in a typical room is strange...
 

Big Dog RJ

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Nice to hear, I like good tube gear....
But the Conrad Johnson Classic One SE is a Pre amp isnt it?.. Which Power amps do you use then? Also CJ?
Our Robbo mate is using the CJ Classic 120se power amp and ET7 preamp. Both are CJ design. When he mentioned Classic One SE, he forgot the 20...
Cheers matey, RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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I was unaware the CLX incorporated an actual crossover and a separate bass panel. I only heard them once or twice, at audio shows in NYC. They certainly had prodigious bass, though I never got to test them with my own choice of program material. But one thing always perplexed me: The CLX was speced as 55-23,000 hz +/- 3dB, whereas the CLS II at 35-20,000 hz +/- 2dB. I realize frequency response figures for speakers, without any regard for the room they're in, are to be taken with a grain of salt (my CLSII's, for example, have a peak at around 40hz in my listening room, and drop off sharply below that). But if the bass performance of the CLX is so far superior why are the manufacturers own specs inferior regarding bass performance?
Exactly right?

This is why I've been huffing and puffing, including woofing about the dam specs! They mean nothing! You really have to listen to a well setup room with proper treatment and the CLX's setup optimally, they can reproduce some serious bass! It's lighting speed, agility and linearity that no sub can match. The start stop & acceleration is superb! If I were into heavy synthesised bass and very low organ type of music, then yes subs are required. Other than that, driving these with Class A biased tube designed monoblocks fully grips those triple stators on the CLX's and drives them to their full potential. It's definitely a marvellous thing!

I've also tried the various settings on the internal bass switches. Sometimes it gives you more of a forward midrange and in some cases slightly reduces the bass output. This is where you can match it with a sub, where the sub would take over more of the upper to mid bass region, other than just the lower, which is what it does when in default settings. I just prefer the default settings without the use of subs. It's not required to change anything but that's just my personal preference.

Cheers, RJ
 
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