Floor Protectors

[benleeys]

Guys,
What do you call those little discs that go underneath the speaker spikes so they don't poke holes into your wooden floor? The other day a dealer recommended me some plastic ones said to be from Germany. I replaced my brass ones with these and found the bass from the Summits became so fat and woolly sounding it gave me an instant headache. It was such a relief to replace my brass discs. I'm going to try stainless steel ones next and let you know the result.

Question is, why do such seemingly innocuous little bits of matter underneath the spikes make such a huge difference to the sound? Is there a scientific explanation for this phenomenon?
Ben

 

[MOON]

There is an alternative to spikes. I have bought some Symposium products this year and noticed on their web site www.symposiumusa.com that they reco...nyone here used these shelves under Logans ??

 

[jfm]

I almost pulled the trigger on the Symposium Svelte last week, hearing how they improved another speaker. I said "almost" because the dealer didn't have the right size -- the shelf has to be slightly bigger than the entire base of the speaker, not just the area demarcated by the spikes. In fact Symposium recommends taking out the spikes and letting the base of the speaker rest on the shelf.

 

[IWalker]

Doesn't the summit have a downfiring woofer? I'd think you would want to give that a little space to do its thing. You could probably spike it to the shelf if you cared.

What don't you like about your brass discs? Are you just looking for a tweak for fun?

You could try these....never tried them or heard anything about em...but worth maybe looking into more?

http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/5153

 

[enilsen]

Question is, why do such seemingly innocuous little bits of matter underneath the spikes make such a huge difference to the sound? Is there a scientific explanation for this phenomenon?
Ben

The theory is that the less energy (resonance) transferred to the floor, the better the speakers will sound. If too much surface of the spike is in contact with the disc, the greater the amount of energy will be transferred to a supporting surface (less insulating and less efficient).

Those who have wooden floors will notice a difference as the bass from the speaker is insulated via the spikes and prevents the floor from resonating as much (muffled bass sound).

 

[Gordon Gray]

Vibration is very bad

We've had previous discussions on this. Anything you can do to minimize vibration transmission between the speaker and the floor is a good thing. See my previous thread and posts on "Spiked my Summits". As stated in that post, best thing to do is to spike the speaker directly into the floor once you have determined final location if you can live with the small holes in the wood floor.

GG

 

[kach22i]

We've had previous discussions on this.

True, and you can find information scattered in the Member's System section too.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=341&page=1&pp=15

 

[user 1398]

What about using a coin, such as a Quarter, instead of a brass disc? I've used Quarters and have gotten decent results, but I haven't actually spent money on discs.

 

[risabet]

The theory is that the less energy (resonance) transferred to the floor, the better the speakers will sound. If too much surface of the spike is in contact with the disc, the greater the amount of energy will be transferred to a supporting surface (less insulating and less efficient).

Those who have wooden floors will notice a difference as the bass from the speaker is insulated via the spikes and prevents the floor from resonating as much (muffled bass sound).

Depends on the floor IME. The spikes act as mechanical diodes only allowing the vibrations, in theory, to leave the speaker and sink into the mass of the floor, which due to its massiveness will dissipate the vibration as heat.

I have laminate over concrete slab and the best sound is from coupling the speakers to the floor with spikes (on protectors of course). Decoupling leads to flabby bass and poor imaging.

On a suspended floor (joists) then coupling the speakers to the floor tightly may sympathetically excite the floor. That may muddy up the bass and screw with the imaging, i. e. the speaker rocks b/f. For suspended floor I recommend getting under the crawl space and supporting the floor with jacks.

Either way spikes couple the speaker to the floor. To decouple the speaker you need some elastic material between the speaker and the floor/stand and this changes the sound dramatically IME

 

[benleeys]

Depends on the floor IME. The spikes act as mechanical diodes only allowing the vibrations, in theory, to leave the speaker and sink into the mass of the floor, which due to its massiveness will dissipate the vibration as heat. ............

Either way spikes couple the speaker to the floor. To decouple the speaker you need some elastic material between the speaker and the floor/stand and this changes the sound dramatically IME

risabet,
I think you may have hit upon the reason for my woolly experience. The protectors I was trying out were of some plastic material which is more elastic than metal and had the effect of decoupling the speakers from the floor. So for even better floor contact, maybe I should remove the pieces of felt (facilitates speaker shifting) I had stuck to the bottom of my brass protectors too. No, I do not wish to see holes in my wooden flooring, so spiking the floor option is out!

Gordon,
Don't you think spiking the speakers directly to the floor will surely aid transmission of vibrations to the floor?

Ben

 

[Gordon Gray]

Direct coupling to the floor

Ben,

I understand your concern. However, based on my experience with wood floors and the SL3's and now the Summits, there was an audible difference, for the positive (better defined mid / low bass, imaging, dimensionality, more natural bloom, improved integration with the low end and top end, etc.) when I spiked the speakers directly into the floor versus having the spikes resting on brass discs. That's my personal experience for what it's worth.

GG

 

[enilsen]

To spike or not to spike.

I have laminate over concrete slab and the best sound is from coupling the speakers to the floor with spikes (on protectors of course). Decoupling leads to flabby bass and poor imaging.

I agree on this, but in your case you don't really need spikes to couple your speakers to the floor. They just need solid feet so they can capitalize on the heavy mass underneath them.

I use to have concrete floors with carpet and can honestly say this is the best surface to have speakers on. Wooden floors cannot compete with this. Insolate the speaker from the floor (decouple) as best you can with a hard disc surface to rest the spike on. You don't want music coming from your floor, only the speakers.

 

[risabet]

I agree on this, but in your case you don't really need spikes to couple your speakers to the floor. They just need solid feet so they can capitalize on the heavy mass underneath them.

I use to have concrete floors with carpet and can honestly say this is the best surface to have speakers on. Wooden floors cannot compete with this. Insolate the speaker from the floor (decouple) as best you can with a hard disc surface to rest the spike on. You don't want music coming from your floor, only the speakers.

Agreed, a concrete slab should simply act as a sink that due to its mass converts the vibes into heat. Also agreed that you don't want to hear the floor but that has only been a concern when I had a suspended wooden floor.

The Clarity's sound much better with spikes than they did with the feet that they came with. IMS spikes on protector plates are definitely the way to go.

 

[[email protected]]

Wood floor as giant resonator

Many floors including my oak floor on the ground level of my house have been built over a basement. I found that this huge cavity under my speakers was clearly audible and interfered with both bass and midrange clarity. The entire lower level of the house participated in the sound of the speakers and spiking only coupled them even more efficiently to this giant drum.

I found a total solution by installing "SSC Pucks" from Acoustic Partners LLC. These pucks consist of a sandwich of two discs separated from each other by a string suspension allowing a load of 35 lbs each, so four pucks are able to suspend up to 140 lbs, enough to carry most ML speakers. The pucks decoupled the speakers from the floor and the entire lower level of the house.

The effect was startling and improved the performance throughout the spectrum and took the sound competely away from the body of the speaker and suspended it into the room. I use them with the spikes installed and an added advantage is that my Summits can now easily slide across the floor without leaving a mark.

 

[benleeys]

To decouple or couple

Sounds like the situation can be summarise like this - if you have a solid floor like concrete or stone, the best results can be obtained by coupling the speakers directly to the floor by means of spikes. Otherwise, best to decouple the speakers from floors which aren't as solid, such as those suspended wooden ones which are prone to vibrate in tandem with the speakers.
Ben

 

[A Ro]

Many floors including my oak floor on the ground level of my house have been built over a basement. I found that this huge cavity under my speakers was clearly audible and interfered with both bass and midrange clarity. The entire lower level of the house participated in the sound of the speakers and spiking only coupled them even more efficiently to this giant drum.

I found a total solution by installing "SSC Pucks" from Acoustic Partners LLC. These pucks consist of a sandwich of two discs separated from each other by a string suspension allowing a load of 35 lbs each, so four pucks are able to suspend up to 140 lbs, enough to carry most ML speakers. The pucks decoupled the speakers from the floor and the entire lower level of the house.

The effect was startling and improved the performance throughout the spectrum and took the sound competely away from the body of the speaker and suspended it into the room. I use them with the spikes installed and an added advantage is that my Summits can now easily slide across the floor without leaving a mark.

Great information regarding wood floors and speaker decoupling.

I also have wooden floor with a large basement beneath and I am very interested in "SSC Pucks", but I cannot find a dealer of this product. I looked for Acoustic Partners LLC on the INTERNET, but I could not find them.
If you could, please provide me a link to their web site or to another dealer of this product. I did find a dealer in the UK and some in Germany. The only US dealer I found does not carry this product anymore - ImmediaSound.

Great pic of the SSC puck and your Summit.
A Ro

 

[romax]

I had around the house some disc endpin anchors for double bass and slid them under my Ascent i. I have wooden floors and a basement underneath. I think they do a pretty good job, especially considering they are $5 each. I use the spikes on top of them. I wouldn't mind trying those SCC pucks though. If you have the info available, please let us know. Thanks.

 

[[email protected]]

I also have wooden floor with a large basement beneath and I am very interested in "SSC Pucks", but I cannot find a dealer of this product. I looked for Acoustic Partners LLC on the INTERNET, but I could not find them.
If you could, please provide me a link to their web site or to another dealer of this product. I did find a dealer in the UK and some in Germany. The only US dealer I found does not carry this product anymore - ImmediaSound.

After several members asked me about Acoustic Partners, the last importer of the SSC products, I found out that Acoustic P. has dissolved and the product does not have an US importer at this point.

The manufacturer however is in Germany, called Akzept Audio and apparently still produces the line. I have tried to contact them, sofar without success. If I ever get ahold of them, I'll post it. Meanwhile one could try the British importer called Aanvil Audio (Bill Houston) tel:
44 135 924 0687.

 

[sharok]

Spikes on tiles

is it better to use the spikes directly on a tiled floor or to use a spike pad?

 

[invenio]

I have heard of people using simple "hockey pucks" under their speakers (with spikes going into the puck). Anybody have experience with these? It would be a relatively cheap solution and you can buy them at any sports store!