Finally heard (and saw) Summits

[aliveatfive]

Talking about waiting - they are currently VERY backordered. Demand is greater than supply. My pair will not be produced until the end of September according to ML. Also, in case anyone's interested, bright aluminium trim cannot be ordered until sometime in October because of supplier difficulties.

 

[Reverb2009]

My Summit Review

Talking about waiting - they are currently VERY backordered. Demand is greater than supply. My pair will not be produced until the end of September according to ML. Also, in case anyone's interested, bright aluminium trim cannot be ordered until sometime in October because of supplier difficulties.

When you say bright aluminum finish, are you referring to the clear-coated aluminum or the bright chrome finish?

I finely got to hear the Summits on Sunday and I was very impressed, to say the leased. The summits are striking to look at in person. I did try some bass heavy music to give the summits 10” drivers a work out. I was unable to bottom them out, they did very well delivering bass that was very tight and aggressive, it never became slow or loose, I could feel the bass in my chest at times. What impressed me the most was how load they could play with out turning up the volume. My dealer put in a disk I was not familiar with buy really enjoyed, it was a Jazz sound called “The Train” he could not tell he who did the song, but I will find out I really liked it.

The song started out with a man talking in a club, he sounded black with an African ax cent, he was talking about a train, his voice came across very natural and uncolored it was when he got to the whistle of the train, he yelled out “CHEW, CHEW!” right when he did that his voice snapped right in-between the two tower with a presents I have yet to hear from any speaker. Placement and set-up could have used a little more work but from what I herded that afternoon, I will be getting the summits ASAP.

Daddy Like.

The setup this dealer was using was two channel, with a Krell “Class A” 300 amp, with monster speaker cables and power condition, the preamp was Krell, with a Denon DVD-2910 player. The sound was very dynamic, but also very bright, I would not go Krell with the summits. I would recommend you build your system around the summits not around the gear. Pick your components wisely, don’t blame the speakers if something doesn’t sound right.

 

[Sunnyboy 1956]

congrats

Aliveatfive
I did exactly what you did. Best of luck we deserve it. I walked into one of the few ,if not only ,high end audio stores in Mumbai(India) with the intention of auditioning a pair of Watt Audio 5.1 and a pair of B&W 801. Neither pair suited my budget, room size or generally made me smile. Had only the foggiest of acquaintence with ML(not very popular in this part of the world). The sound just blew me. The dealer was using Rowland gear which has no relation to the more modest stuff I have at home. Having been in this hobby for 30 plus years you learn to trust your ears more than any hype.
Best of luck with the Summits. I really envy you.

 

[aliveatfive]

Zip -

If you notice the ML website, the base - options trim browser page has been minimalized as to the choices available. As far as I know, the bright aluminium option has been put on hold for the time being. BTW - bright alum is a $500 option according to my dealer.

 

[tascam]

recording engineer

For the information of those of you who think "we" are not experts, let me explain my backround. First, I am a recording enginneer in Nashville. In addition to owning my owning tracking and remixing studio, I also work in several major studios on music row. I have been recording and mixiing music since 1980. I have done many live acoustic only music recordings. Additionally, I am a jazz pianist and and flaminco guitarist and play several other instruments. I am not trying to brag. I state this because I know what music is suppossed to sound like; real music. Think what you want about the ascent. The fact is that when you crank it up, the sound stage colapses and become slightly compressed. Unless you have top grade electronics you might not notice it, but put on a clean rock vocal, listen at low volume, then crank it up and you will here the focus goes away and the sound becomes slightly, albeit slightly edgy. The point is, you lose the ability to connect at higher volumes in the same way you connect at lower volumes. There is a reason the product is now discontinued; there is something better coming. Accept the fact that the product has limitations; it's not perfect. As far is Singer is concerned, my experience is that he has burned me and several others that I know. The fact that he is still in business means nothing. There are plenty of crooks in the auto business still operating too. As consumers, we should demand home additions of products or at least the ability to return it for a full refund. LET THE DEALER EARN THEIR MONEY!!!!! Why should we get stuck with a product we don't like. If everyone refused to buy expensive products unless they had this guarantee, the dealers would be forced to do it!!!!

 

[aliveatfive]

If you want to state credentials:

I have been exposed to live, symphonic music from the age of 4 (I am now 60 - hate to admit it,) I play two instruments, I am very familiar with the sound of live, unamplified music, I was the audio-video director for a large (possibly the largest) New York City school district. Apparently we hear differently. I may agree with your assessment of MLs if you're talking about early models (Sequel.) To my ears, they do not sound that way now. Wanna fight?

 

[jon7988]

Tascam, My only point was the ascent is a fine sounding speaker. You pretty much slammed it, and I for one, love their sound. You mention it has limitations, what product doesn't, I am sure the summit will have "limitations" of it's own. Is it a better sounding speaker?? I would think, or at least hope so, is it so much better that the Ascent is junk compared to it??. I think not. Is it worth twice the price? I guess that depends on how much money you have and your definition of "worth".

As far as the expert, you can rattle off any resume you want, I absolutly assure you I am far more qualified on what sounds good to me, then you will ever realize. That being said, this neophyte is gonna enjoy his inferrior Ascents......... BTW, I agree with you on the dealer (all of them) earning their money, and providing a SERVICE, and not just an order taker! Jon

 

[Reverb2009]

Zip -

If you notice the ML website, the base - options trim browser page has been minimalized as to the choices available. As far as I know, the bright aluminium option has been put on hold for the time being. BTW - bright alum is a $500 option according to my dealer.

Yes I noticed only black anodized aluminum finish was listed now. Yes clear coated aluminum is a $500.00 up grade, Chrome and Black Chrome is a $5,000.00 up grade. $700.00 for the exotic woods, and Custom woods are made and priced to order.

Take care

 

[tascam]

ascent i

I didn't slam the speaker; I said it has dynamic limitations at higher volumes. That is a fact; the mylar can only move so far. I am not telling anyone what to like. If these speakers did everything right, no one would buy dynamic speakers. The fact is dynamic speakers (good ones) will play louder and work better for certain types of music such as big band and disco at higher volumes. I happen to like electrostatic speakers. I had the Ascent i in my home for a month. I thought it was a good, but not a great speaker except on simple material like jazz trios, jazz vocals with few instruments and sax. It was not as effective on big band played loud (limited dynamics or loud rock without changing the character and focus of the vocals). No studio that I have ever seen monitors on electrostatics. They are all dynamic speakers. Buy what you want. All I am saying is you should have the right to have a home audition or return the speakers if YOU don't think they sound right in your system. Most of these dealers are just hucksters that want to make a quick buck and do as little work as possible. Most products do not live up to the claims the reviewers make in the mags because they are giving "long term" loans of equipment or free equipment, or significant discounts as long as they do the politically correct thing and write nice things about a product. I BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD TRUST THEY'RE OWN EARS. But let's not kid ourselves by thinking that a now discontinued, obsolete product is perfect. There is something better coming in October. Martin Logan is not going to take a step backward. BTW, I was just offered the Acent i pair I returned for $2977. I am going to wait for the new one instead.

 

[Reverb2009]

Tascam,
It has been said here before, just because it’s new, and a replacement doesn’t mean it will be better.

I cross my fingers; it will better the ascent's and be very close to the summits performance. I hope Martin Logan will unveil this new speaker for us at CEDIA’05 in September.

 

[kwr]

I didn't slam the speaker; I said it has dynamic limitations at higher volumes..... The fact is dynamic speakers (good ones) will play louder and work better for certain types of music such as big band and disco at higher volumes..... It was not as effective on big band played loud (limited dynamics or loud rock without changing the character and focus of the vocals). No studio that I have ever seen monitors on electrostatics.

I think the dynamic limitations of electrostratics is their significant disadvantage if you listen at high volumes. I have still not heard a speaker that does not change it's tonal balance at high volumes and electrostatics are no exception. At reasonable domestic levels however the resolution king is an electrostatic. I wonder if we hear electronics "compress" even if they are not formally clipping

I personally dislike the average live amplified event as the music is too loud. The ability of a system to play loud is of little practical importance whereas the ability to have presence at low volumes is. Curiously this is an effect I have noticed with electronics too ... our Plinius system has presence at low volumes that other amps fail to achieve.

Incidentally Tony Faulkner of Hyperion and other classical labels monitors on Quads. I don't know if that counts as a studio or not.

Kevin

 

[socialxray]

OK everybody take a valium and get happy.

I am just curious and not trying to be condesending. Tascam what do you consider great speakers (whether it be electrostatic or not)?

 

[tascam]

New Vantage, replacement for the "tired" Ascent i

In electrostatic, I think some of the bigger Soundlab speakers are excellent. I like the Mag 12.1, Dali MS 4 and Megaline. I also think the adjustable bass on the new ML will help on some lean or overbassed recordings. THE NEW ML REPLACEMENT FOR THE ASCENT I WILL BE CALLED THE VANTAGE. IT WILL LIST FOR BETWEEN $4.5K AND 5K! It should feature a single powered front firing woofer. It is still being finalized. It will be as tall as the Summit, but more narrow.

 

[aliveatfive]

I'd just like to know, since you precipitated the slam, who is your dealer who will let you take home the Vantage, deliver it to you, set it up for you, and not charge for any of the above services? I'd like to find out so I can deal with this guy. How do you know you'll like the Vantage? You are being guilty of the same sins that you accused me of making.

 

[tascam]

Vantage

Tweeter has a 30 day return policy. They will deliver the speaker, you can set it up which is easy, and break it in. You can return it if you don't like it like I did with the Ascent. It's really too bad that you took it as a personal attack just because I think the Ascent is not a world class speaker and I think it is obsolete in view of the new technology coming from ML. They have a new panel and a new powered bass section. They have been working to improve the Ascent for 3 years! Just because you have a now discontinued product whose value has no dropped considerably, don't take it out on me. It was an OK speaker in it's time. It is now basically gone, everything about the new line is different; panel, bass, style. If you want to believe what you have is current state of the art, go right ahead or maybe just realize that your speaker is just an appliance like a toaster or oven. It can be replaced and is not an extention of you as a person. Tha's why when these stupid american women want to judge a man by his car, it's time to say good-bye to them. You are not your car and not your speaker!!!!!!!!!

 

[DTB300]

Tha's why when these stupid american women want to judge a man by his car, it's time to say good-bye to them.

Whoa...."stupid american women"......stand back guys, the estrogen attacks are about to begin....What a bad can of worms to open up....

You are not your car and not your speaker!!!!!!!!!

And to think "Herbie" and I were getting along so well together!!! Now I need to break the news to him.....Dude I am not a car.....(sounds of a Bug driving off into the sunset....)

 

[tascam]

really?

How many "wives" in this culture are so understanding and non-controlling as to "let" the man buy a 10K pair of speakers unless they are very wealthy? Most of these woman would say something like "Honey, you don't need those new expensive ML speakers. We need a new SUV, and I need more jewelry, and a new granite kitchen counter top, and more clothes. And then we need stuff for the baby that I want. That's a stupid hobby you have anyway. Besides once I divorce you, you aren't going to get to keep those speakers anyway. I will get to keep them along with the house and then I will sell them on EBAY and pocket the cash. You'll get stuck in a small apartment and you'll be listening to $99 Polk speakers. So, let's get the SUV instead. Afterall, if I'm going to look like a soccer mom and behave like an aggressive man, I need a powerful vehicle that I can't handle, so I can tailgate everyone on the road who won't get out of my way. So in my typical controlling way, I am telling you again, Do NOT buy those ridiculously expensive Martin Logan speakers!!!!" I am a single audiophile and I will stay that way and buy whatever I want and with the divorce rate of first and second marriages hovering around 75%, the chances of losing your Martin Logan speakers are pretty high. Just look at the stats.

 

[DTB300]

How many "wives" in this culture are so understanding and non-controlling as to "let" the man buy a 10K pair of speakers unless they are very wealthy?

Mine would. In fact in the past year, I have spent a considerable amount of money on audio equipment and I am "FAR" from wealthy (can you say credit) We have a very good relationship and understand each other very well. It is not a one-sided relationship but an "us" relationship. Not ME, not YOU, but US. Wow...now this thread has gone into relationships...

Most of these woman would say something like "Honey, you don't need those new expensive ML speakers. We need a new SUV, and I need more jewelry, and a new granite kitchen counter top, and more clothes. And then we need stuff for the baby that I want. That's a stupid hobby you have anyway. Besides once I divorce you, you aren't going to get to keep those speakers anyway. I will get to keep them along with the house and then I will sell them on EBAY and pocket the cash. You'll get stuck in a small apartment and you'll be listening to $99 Polk speakers. So, let's get the SUV instead. Afterall, if I'm going to look like a soccer mom and behave like an aggressive man, I need a powerful vehicle that I can't handle, so I can tailgate everyone on the road who won't get out of my way. So in my typical controlling way, I am telling you again, Do NOT buy those ridiculously expensive Martin Logan speakers!!!!"

Dang....not only has Singer burned you, but many a woman too by the sound of this post. Anger manangment is available you know...

I am a single audiophile and I will stay that way and buy whatever I want and with the divorce rate of first and second marriages hovering around 75%, the chances of losing your Martin Logan speakers are pretty high. Just look at the stats.

Then you are missing out on a great part of life. Yes, we have some folks here who would side with you, but I am going strong on almost 25 years, and plan on another 25+. Finding the right partner takes work, and keeping the right partner take even more. One-sided thinking does not get you very far - just to the local court house.

Good luck on living with yourself, as it is a decision you have made. I don't condeme you, nor do I applaud you - it is your choice to make and not mine. Just like AliveAtFive and his speaker purchase - their decision, not yours, or mine. Be happy for them and their purchase, not degrating and surly.

Why don't you just calm down, take a breath, and give us all a break from your internal anger imparted on all of us here. Geeesshhh....

 

[tascam]

marriage?

If u are happly married, congrats!; you are one of about 5% in this country. If I ever was to marry, there is no way I would marry an american woman. Most are controlling manipulators who will try to take your stuff and money in divorce court. And no, I am single, not divorced. My audio hobby is important to me and I won't lose my equipment. There are plenty of women to just date. And they enjoy listening to Martin Logan too!!!

 

[asindc]

Tascam,

You mentioned in an earlier post that Tweeter will deliver. I live in the DC suburbs, and they only deliver around here for a $75 fee. The delivery guys are definitely not AV experts, just hired hands. Just curious how they do things where you live.

Anthony