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audioraptured

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Good evening members: Does anyone know which extension cord at a length of one yard would be the best to purchase for the Ascents' ? I have about 3 feet to go if I move them around a couch, as I don't want them anywhere someone may trip or pull it from the speaker. Any brand names and or model numbers would be helpfull. I am not talking about surge protectors or the ones that have a cable attachment on them, (unless this would be of some benefit and not degrade the audio response). If a pair were bought would they have to be the same lenght? Just a 3 or at the most 4 foot length of what would be the best wire grade, (hospital), and if anyone has had any problems, or successful conditions........... thanks in advance
 

DavidG

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Can't help with Brands

As I'm UK based, I really can't help with US Brands too much. But, I would always recommend some sort of surge protection on your audio gear! Whilst it probably won't be too effective if you get a lightening strike on the substation that supplies your house, it will offer you protection from most other mains electricity gremlins. Your choice is - surge protection to be safe, or risk some potentially expensive damage to your equipment.

Cheers,

David
 

Craig

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I recommend extending it with a surge protector. I don't think traditional ML speakers benefit from upgraded power cables becuase the panels use power "indirectly" and only for the occasional "recharge" of the panels. In fact, once the panels are charged (about 1-2 seconds ?) they will continue to play with the power cord unplugged until the music stops flowing.

I'm sure someone else can provide a more accurate technical description of how the panels use electrical power.

However, since the new Vantages and Summits have powered woofers with an internal amplifier I would expect them to respond to an upgraded power cord and power conditioning. I'll give ML a call this afternoon to see what they have to say about power cords/conditioning and surge protectors on the new Vantage/Summit speakers vs the older ML line. I'll be sure to let you know.
 

SteveInNC

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Craig said:
I recommend extending it with a surge protector. I don't think traditional ML speakers benefit from upgraded power cables becuase the panels use power "indirectly" and only for the occasional "recharge" of the panels. In fact, once the panels are charged (about 1-2 seconds ?) they will continue to play with the power cord unplugged until the music stops flowing.

I'm sure someone else can provide a more accurate technical description of how the panels use electrical power.

However, since the new Vantages and Summits have powered woofers with an internal amplifier I would expect them to respond to an upgraded power cord and power conditioning. I'll give ML a call this afternoon to see what they have to say about power cords/conditioning and surge protectors on the new Vantage/Summit speakers vs the older ML line. I'll be sure to let you know.
While I do think that a power conditioner can help with amps/speakers that use active circuits such as the Vantage et al, I don't think that simply using a better grade of wire from the wall to your power consumer helps - the reason I say that is that the wiring in the walls in your house (in the US) is usually generic NM-14 or NM-12 (non-metallic sheathed solid copper) of whatever grade of copper that meets the rated ampacity for the wire. It's only purpose is to carry 15 or 20 amps of power (respectively). A power conditioner between the wall and the consumer can make a difference for active audio circuits, particularly if you have electrically noisy power. As Craig mentions, for older MLs, the power is simply stepped up to a higher voltage to charge the panels, so noise is less of an issue, if at all.

I do think that surge protectors are a good thing in either case to supress induced spikes in the power service.
 

audioraptured

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Thanks DavidG and SteveInNC; I think you guys are right about this protection for the speakers. After all I have dedicated 20 amp lines for both power amps, so why not be prudent and do the same with the speaker cords? David, I think adding the surge protection is the way to go. Steve, I see you are near my friends in Reigh, (a great town), and I believe you when you talk about surge protectors because I've heard North Carolina is next in line after Florida when it comes to lightning strikes and power surges.
 

audioraptured

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Craig, man that is way cool that you would do that about the call and information, I really appreciate that gesture of kindness. Is there a particular brand eveyone here uses, like something from Home Depot or something; or is there something more powerfull and made better? It would be wonderful if they new where and what company makes really good ones,..... ( and naturally at the cost $1 and have free delivery by Pamela Anderson, and .... Wait a minute, caught myself drifting again, sorry mates). Thanks for your time. Hope all went well for you this New Year... .Be safe in that Tampa heat and enjoy for flights...
 

Craig

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The Tampa Bay area is supposedly the lightning capital of the US. During the summer months I unplug my gear before leaving for work because chances are good there will be a lightning storm in the area as I'm driving home. Also, the electrical power grids in Florida are some of the dirtiest but I don't think it's too bad in my immediate area. Consequently, I'm more concerned with surge protection than power conditioning. For a small monthly fee, the Tampa Electric Co. TECO will install a ZAP CAP on your house power main that is supposed to protect your appliances from strong surges. I think it's just a huge capacitor that absorbs the surge. Fortunately, I haven't lost anything to power surges since I've been here.

For surge protection you need to look at the Joules ratings. The higher the number the better the protection. This is one area where Monster Power Conditioners excell. However, some surge protectors have circuitry that dimish from repeated surges so they should be eventually be replaced.

The only good protection from a direct or nearby lightning strike is for your equipment to be unplugged.
 

DTB300

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Craig said:
For surge protection you need to look at the Joules ratings. The higher the number the better the protection. This is one area where Monster Power Conditioners excell. However, some surge protectors have circuitry that dimish from repeated surges so they should be eventually be replaced.
The Monster equipment has MOV's and like you say they diminish from repeated surges. One of the best surge protectors out there are the BrickWall or ZeroSurge protectors.

But read on....


The only good protection from a direct or nearby lightning strike is for your equipment to be unplugged.
But like you say...this is the ultimate in surge and lightning protection.

Dan
 

Jeff Zaret

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Like DTB300 (Dan) has said MOV's can be a problem. There are many white papers written and you could some research. I would stay away from any device that only had a MOV as surge protection. The problem with them is when they do break down and quit working there is no indication. The result you will see is when that when lightening does strike and your equipment it looks like a grilled cheese sandwich. One analogy I liked was like a prize fighter (boxer) can take lots of punches/abuse but there will come a time when the punching will occur to where there is nothing left to protect and there will be no way to reverse this damage.

I just recently purchased a surge protector, line stabilizer, EMI/RFI product and it has seemed to have improved even more over the "said" one I have.

One other quick note and I am off the soapbox.

"Joule ratings — the amount of energy a surge protector can sustain before failing — were designed to make comparisons easy. But they‘re almost meaningless except as marketing tools because, while they’ll tell you when the unit will fail, they won’t tell you how much voltage a protector will let through to your gear. Although Underwriters Laboratories (UL) lists joule ratings, standards bodies such as the IEEE and the IEC don’t recommend using them for comparing surge devices. Instead, look at the Surge Voltage Rating, or clamping voltage, from the UL 1449 Second Edition." from Sound and Vision Magazine January 2006.

Jeff :cool:
 

SteveInNC

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One of our two local energy companies (maybe both) will also "lease" you a whole-house surge unit, designed to act as a boundary to block surges from coming into the house over the electrical service. Note that these do nothing against spikes generated within the house. For roughly $100-150, you can get the same thing from a hardware store or electrical supply, then pay someone about $100 to install it. It mounts to your electrical service panel/meter. Given that I seem to recall that the power company charges a couple of bucks a month for this, the payback period for installing your own would be relatively short.

Better surge protector strips have an LED that lets you know when the unit has failed or worn out from quashing surges, whether MOV or some other mechanism. Although it's pretty much standard practice now, you want a unit that protects across all three wiring combinations: hot-neutral, neutral-ground, ground-hot. As has been mentioned, surge units can deal with glitches caused by big motors cycling on and off, and can deal with induced surges from nearby lightning strikes. Nothing can handle a direct strike - lightning will go where it wants, including through and over insulating materials, due to its excessive voltage and current.

Most units these days come with an insurance warranty, covering connected equipment up to $NNN (varies by unit). I have no idea how hard it is to actually make a claim against a unit failure that allowed your electronics to fry...
 

tonyc

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Cheap but good sounding extension cords can be ordered online from the signal cable website. I have been using one on my Descent.
 

audioraptured

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Thanks tonyc and Mr. Zaret. I was wondering which model both of you gentlemen have chosen and what was the overall length of the product. Thanks in advance guys. I am also going to see what DTB300 has mentioned with the Brick/Zero companies and their cost.
 

tonyc

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audioraptured, I do not see the cord I purchased on the website. It has apparently been replaced by a cord with four outlets which retails for $109. I bet they would make you a simple extension cord. I think I gave about $60-70 several years ago.
 

Jeff Zaret

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audioraptured,
I have a combination of a few things due to the distance apart I have some of my components. I decided on purchasing an APC H15. I did this on a few considerations. I have had a long and positive experience with APC products. I have been in the computer industry for over 25 years and they have always been as advertised and have worked as they claimed. I have been searching for something better as far as surge, RFI, EMI protection and line conditioning.
I currently have two Monster products, HTS 1000 and a HTS 850. These did an adequate job but not what I had expected and failed on two separate occasions.

I did a lot of research and there is a lot of double-talk and marketing crap out there. Yes, there are a lot of good products but I am not in the position to invest in something in the $1000’s to get what I need. In my case I would have two devices and this would not be a cost affective for my situation.
In my current configuration, I have everything plugged in the APC device. Now having said that I will have to explain that some devices will simply not reach, what I have done is use the Monster products as extension cords to provide me the protection I needed. The devices that will not reach the APC are plugged in to the Monster products and they are in turn plugged in to the APC.
I am very pleased with the APC H 15. It offers 12 outlets not 8 and if you are lucky 10 as most other manufactures’ products, FI/EMI protection, dedicated analog and digital outlests and it has the same, if not better specs in certain areas. Although it may not be the best with everything it was hard to be for the overall capability, warranty and price. I purchased it online and got about 40% off.
Finally, I would say that with the line voltage stabilization and filtering of RFI/EMI of the APC has brought my system to another level.

Jeff :cool:
 

audioraptured

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Thanks again tonyc and Mr. Zaret, I will check this out on Monday. Hope I'm lucky.
 

Craig

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However, since the new Vantages and Summits have powered woofers with an internal amplifier I would expect them to respond to an upgraded power cord and power conditioning. I'll give ML a call this afternoon to see what they have to say about power cords/conditioning and surge protectors on the new Vantage/Summit speakers vs the older ML line. I'll be sure to let you know.
Only about a month later than promised but... hey, I didn't forget. I called ML today and asked them about power conditioning for the Summits and Vantage. The following sums up what was said:

Surge protection is definitely recommended for obvious reasons. Power conditioning may help on the low-end but it's not necessary to spend a lot (less than $500 or so) on power conditioning for the speakers.

The panels typically use only 1/4 amp which is similiar to powering a 20w light bulb and don't really benefit from power conditioning. But again surge protection is highly recommended.
 
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