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IEnjoyOLED

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Love your room, @Fidji99, that looks amazing. I wish I had the option of a dedicated cinema room (and a hi-fi one too!)
I had not planned on this but a dedicated HT has the advantage that my wife, normally fastidious and esthetically minded, has let me get loose and sloppy since the room is used in the dark. I have cables running around the room, bass traps stacked behind curtains, errant drilled holes in the drywall, etc. It even almost embarrasses me 😄 but I don’t embarrass easily, a benefit of being in my 70s.

Our stereo listening “room” is what I’d call a living room but I think the modern term for it is “great room.” I have not yet managed to smuggle in a single bass trap, but it sounds pretty good anyway.
 

Fidji99

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Final Treatments and 3rd sub added. Almost good ;-) Bit of tidying of cables etc.

1643289859186.png


1643289904734.png


For those interested about treatments - all from GIK Acoustics:

Front Wall:
Corners 4x TriTrap with Scatter Plate,
Behind speakers 4in absorber with scatter plate with Air Gap, Tuned membrane bass trap for 55Hz Frequency [Scopus],
Ceiling 2x Tri Trap and then 4In thick panels in the middle of the ceiling [4 pcs] with Air Gap

Back Wall:
Corners 4x Tri Trap with Range Limiter,
Wall: 4pcs of Tuned Bass Traps T40 and T50 [Hz], 2x 4in absorbers with scatter plate, and 4x 2in absorbers with scatter plate.
Ceiling 60*60cm 2x 4in and 2*6in with Air Gap

SIde Walls - 4in and 2 in absorbers with diffusion plates.

and bit of a heavy lifting ;-) - BTW this 2 paper things on the speaker [front and rear] , this is my equivalent of Light-under-the-chin help, to get to 1/3 toe in - most importantly to the SAME toe-in

1643291506588.png
 
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Reverb

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Nice, thanks for sharing.
 

BigGuy

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Very nice system. Am also using 3 subs. I see your 2(?) in the front. Where is the 3rd?
 

Fidji99

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Same here - approx. 7dB lower gain than front subs

English not my first language - "architectural panels" might get it wrong but
it goes like this
lowest row = 2 fabric square modules [each had diff. color - fixed and replaced] - 2x T50 - 50Hz Tuned membrane bass traps [custom tuning]
above them thick ones with pattern - T40 [same but tuned for 40Hz]

Bass Trap a Membrana Intonata Scopus (T40) - GIK ACOUSTICS ITALY

and upper row - simple 2in absorbers with scatter plate


sorry, for whichever reason gikacoustics page only allows local page - but search for bass traps and diffusion products in their shop menu.

Need to say - those tuned bass traps were really the difference between good and great bass response. I was lucky that my room modes are distributed the way they are, so I could keep some symmetry. Have 8pcs of those [4+4] and they are the real deal. And heavy like hell.
 

BigGuy

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Same here - approx. 7dB lower gain than front subs

English not my first language - "architectural panels" might get it wrong but
it goes like this
lowest row = 2 fabric square modules [each had diff. color - fixed and replaced] - 2x T50 - 50Hz Tuned membrane bass traps [custom tuning]
above them thick ones with pattern - T40 [same but tuned for 40Hz]

Bass Trap a Membrana Intonata Scopus (T40) - GIK ACOUSTICS ITALY

and upper row - simple 2in absorbers with scatter plate


sorry, for whichever reason gikacoustics page only allows local page - but search for bass traps and diffusion products in their shop menu.

Need to say - those tuned bass traps were really the difference between good and great bass response. I was lucky that my room modes are distributed the way they are, so I could keep some symmetry. Have 8pcs of those [4+4] and they are the real deal. And heavy like hell.

Thanks. Will check out GIK North America for comparable products.

Interesting, I am also using diffusers about 5 feet behind the listening position.. More involving sound to my ear.
 

Fidji99

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Some recent changes to the set-up - added 1x 1600x + 1100X for 7.4.4
1660227031345.png


but most importantly -> this is new brain of my system - Trinnov AV preamp, and anybody talking superlatives is not exxagerating ... + complete Purifi/Ncore amplification. This Room Optimizer DRC is just somethinf else.

1660227528602.png
 

ttocs

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I especially like the cardboard processor stand! (just kidding)

Fidji99 I've been vocal about being a Trinnov fan for several years. I don't have a dedicated theater, but even so, if my processor fell out of favor with me, Trinnov is first and only on the list.

Please share your experience with it in a dedicated thread. Would love to know more about Trinnov being that there's so little info out there.
 
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Some recent changes to the set-up - added 1x 1600x + 1100X for 7.4.4
View attachment 23157

but most importantly -> this is new brain of my system - Trinnov AV preamp, and anybody talking superlatives is not exxagerating ... + complete Purifi/Ncore amplification. This Room Optimizer DRC is just somethinf else.

View attachment 23158
Nice to see another 1600x in use with smaller siblings (O: Mine is for music only, although, I am sure fantastic for movies and concerts as in your setup!
 

Fidji99

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I especially like the cardboard processor stand! (just kidding)

Fidji99 I've been vocal about being a Trinnov fan for several years. I don't have a dedicated theater, but even so, if my processor fell out of favor with me, Trinnov is first and only on the list.

Please share your experience with it in a dedicated thread. Would love to know more about Trinnov being that there's so little info out there.
As per popular demand ;-) - 2x 4channel Ncore, 1 Stereo Ncore , L-C-R powered by Purifi

1660282917355.png


Re TRINNOV - will put something together. But [with my experience being deep with Audyssey, less deep with Dirac, and a bit with ARC] - this is the only DRC that makes ML sound better in mid/treble.

But just to give you an idea about flexibility - 29 completely independent configurations [called presets] each can have their own measurements and calibration and there are couple of settings in "advanced settings" area where manual says something in this direction:
"We will not comment on this part of settings, as if you know, you know, if you do not know, then do not touch it"

But is a big day today - I am going to pick up my C18, pair of Motion 4i and maybe [still not decided] another 800x or 1100x to make it 7.5.6
 

Reverb

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As per popular demand ;-) - 2x 4channel Ncore, 1 Stereo Ncore , L-C-R powered by Purifi

View attachment 23159

Re TRINNOV - will put something together. But [with my experience being deep with Audyssey, less deep with Dirac, and a bit with ARC] - this is the only DRC that makes ML sound better in mid/treble.

But just to give you an idea about flexibility - 29 completely independent configurations [called presets] each can have their own measurements and calibration and there are couple of settings in "advanced settings" area where manual says something in this direction:
"We will not comment on this part of settings, as if you know, you know, if you do not know, then do not touch it"

But is a big day today - I am going to pick up my C18, pair of Motion 4i and maybe [still not decided] another 800x or 1100x to make it 7.5.6
That sounds excellent. Thanks. Enjoy!
 

Fidji99

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@ttocs - TRINNOV Bass Management Special for you. [as trying to describe everything you can do I would probably spend next 3 weeks just typing]. I will be referring to MiniDsp/MSO, Audyssey as reference points and to channel count of 20, which is my current config, expandable up to 48 for around 500 eur/channel cost.

My idea of getting TRINNOV was to finally merge my Stereo and HT setup with 1 Preamp and not to have do some silly configuration [AV to Stereo Preamp for L/R and 2.0 listening, Streamer connected analogue to Stereo Preamp AND digitally to AV to utilize DRC and subs]. From Sound persepctive - TRINNOV combined with Purifi/Hypex& ML - this is as transparent sound as it gets. Also with quiter high voltage [6V] going out, I could set Purifi amps to 20dB overall gain which makes it dead silent for Stereo. I really like what I hear for Stereo, which is approx 50% of usage.

Where to start - TRINNOV is extremely flexible - you have 29 configuration presets, that are completely independent in every aspect [measurements, speaker assignment, target curve or any other imanigable setting] - in my case I have 2.0, 2.4, 7.1.4, 7.4.4, some doubled for multiple seating positions [so 7.4.4. 1 seat, 7.4.4 2 seats, for example] this combines with 28 freely assignable inputs [you can use one input several times} - e.g. Apple TV Netflix, Apple TV HBO, Apple Music Stereo, Apple Music Spatial and assign to HDMI 7 input whichever preset you want [and you can change them on the fly of course. E.g. I have preset "Shitty Audio" for poorly recorded movies , you get the idea.

Bass Management is real highlight, compared to Denon, is on a different planet. Funny though - MiniDsp is widely used in TRINNOV community for 1) channels saving - there are lot of people that get limited with 20 channels available, so they do 11.1.8 with SW handled by MiniDsp [ALt 32 is modular so you can add channels in batches of 8, ALt 16 is limited to 20 channels] and 2) there is no real "MSO" option, so either you do "MSO emulation" [you run all the REW measurements you need to, then run MSO and type in manually PEQ/gains/delays] and run all the subs as array [max 4 apiece]

so let's look at my example - 1x1600 [soon 2], 2x1100, 1x800, ESL13A, C18, 2x Source, 2xMotion 8i and 4xMotion 4i [soon 6] as height speakers.

4i's - they really come alive at around 110Hz - normally you would cross them over, as appropriate, which is already audible.
1660487546048.png


TRINNOV allows you to re-direct to ANY other speaker, in this case L, as you can see - you can choose LPF, HPF, filter type and slope. Subsequently, if you choose to re-direct from L&R to subs - it will get redirected too. Cool thing. I have one setup, where I run L&R down to 30Hz, so I am testing C18 - at 80 Hz to L&R and then to S1&S2 at 30Hz - really creates enveloping screen speakers sensation.

ANother incredible option [at least for me] - in other AVP's I always had the issue of phase cancellation in Xover frequency - I had either L&R right or Center right, never managed to get both of them - TRINNOV can invert polarity on individual speaker signal and set-up individual Bass Signal gain. Is definitely audible [you need REW to measure and validate]

1660488006201.png


Another interesting option - you can compensate for "stacked subs" - ones that excite the same room modes.

My planned set-up after I receive my second 1600X
2x1600x - placed in front corners - set up as mono, optimized with MSO for 2 seats - playing LFE & redirected L&R from 40Hz and below in movies
1x800x - placed in front - next to Center - dedicated just to Center signal, creating 4 way C speaker playing down to 40Hz and rest redirected to 2x1600X
1x1100x - mid rear wall - dedicated to S, SB and Heigt surround&Back, probably as from 50Hz [actually this one is like 1.5m from MLP, so there is more than enough air pressure.
1x 1100x - nulls filler for LFE and L&R [placed somewhere randomly - probably one of rear corners.

For Music, I wil just melt them into 1 Mono Sub, run MSO and that's it - Xover at 55Hz works best for me.
 

ttocs

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Wow!
I don't know what else to say, but, Wow!

That is really nice! Even more tweakable than I would ever have imagined. Trinnov is doing themselves a disservice when they don't explain this stuff as well as you just did.

Thank you very much for your great explanation! I really appreciate it!
 

ttocs

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While I was expecting some improvement over 50XT, I need to admit, that I am just shocked how much better C18 is. [and subsequently how much of performance of my system I was throwing away all that time].

I also love how physically imposing it is.

View attachment 23160
Yeah, I find myself being impressed with the C18 every time I fire up the system. It really blends very well with the 13A.
 

JonFo

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Re TRINNOV - will put something together. But [with my experience being deep with Audyssey, less deep with Dirac, and a bit with ARC] - this is the only DRC that makes ML sound better in mid/treble.
first, congratulations on the new preamplifier, that is the dream model !

Great to hear the mids are improved with their DRC, my reading leads me to believe their time-domain performance is the best.

An Altitude32 is in my future at some point.
 

Fidji99

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That is really nice! Even more tweakable than I would ever have imagined. Trinnov is doing themselves a disservice when they don't explain this stuff as well as you just did.
Yes, when you combine it with some REW experience - it is indifinitely tweakable. And customer service is next level - replying to emails on weekend, offering remote assistance if needed etc etc Interestingly - their Head of Customer Care - Antoine, is a specialist on dipoles/electrostats setup, so he chimes in with some good advices here and there.

What I do not get - is their messaging along the line of "you need professional calibrator, you better not touch it yourself" - instead of "tweakers and tinkerers of this world - welcome to our temple". I suppose 25% of TRINNOV users are geeks like us, 75% have it buried in their invoice for 12 seater cinema as "Other equipment"
Great to hear the mids are improved with their DRC, my reading leads me to believe their time-domain performance is the best.

An Altitude32 is in my future at some point.

I would assume it is their philosophy "better to under-correct, than over-correct" that plays a big role here. I am not in that phase yet [I was until now concentrating on Bass Management and learning how to calibrate efficiently]. but will now start look at more details also in Mid/Treble part. But you can decide by yourself how subtle the corrections will be, which is huge advantage e.g. over Audyssey.


One interesting option as an example - for Stereo - you have opportunity to use actual average of L&R as Target Curve - so TRINNOV will do only small adjustments in FR, clean up Impulse response and Group delay. Your speakers character that you are used to is still there, but everything else just improved - stereo imaging, sound is much crispier [for lack of better description]

You can decide to e.g. limit any correction around xover frequencies of your speakers, set length of FIR filters, look at frequency dependent length for correction [add 1 cycle for dipoles etc. ]. You have IIR PEQ, can do FIR filters etc.

So my weeks look now like this - I study [there is almost 1100 pages heavy community on AVSFORUM, and you some industry insiders contribute there too] and lot of videos, webinars etc, Saturday I work on tweaking, and the have full week to evaluate. Hard work.
 

JonFo

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Hard work.
Yes indeed, but also a lot of fun to learn and apply that knowledge.

That's part of why I'm in no rush to get an Alt32, as I'm hoping to retire first. I know I'll spend 20+ hrs a week on it for the first few months. My system is all active, so the Trinnov will be supplanting the speaker processors, and I'll do all XO duties in the Alt32.

Thanks for the added details on your config and tuning.
 
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