Quantcast

Ever see a Silver/Gold ceramic casing Audiophile Fuse?

MartinLogan Owners (MLO)

Help Support MartinLogan Owners (MLO):

kach22i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
7
Location
Michigan
I once had a problem with my Rotel amp when I first bought it, kept blowing fuses. The owner of the stereo store fixed it himself as the service department screwed up no less than three times. It was a simple problem, and in the end the owner installed a few ceramic cased fuses instead of clear glass ones. I have never had a problem since in the 15 years owning this amp.

First time in 15 years in seeing something like this:

Do your high end components use 5¢ fuses?
Can there be any doubt that this is a "choke point" in the performance of these components?

HiFi-Tuning Fuses are:
* hand made and tested in Germany
* gold over silver end caps
* pure silver wiring
* ceramic casing, rather than glass, for better resonance characteristics.

Just how significant is this upgrade? Think of it in the same context as a power cord upgrade, in other words... MAJOR. If you are into high performance audio or video, you need these fuses!
Note: sent to me via e-mail from these guys:
http://www.fatwyre.com/

So what's the verdic, just more "audio voodo"?

Does the audio signal ever pass through a fuse?
 

Attachments

Reverb

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,543
Reaction score
0
Location
Palm Springs, CA
Have you seen these? They are made by IsoClean and are not cheap as fuse go, but are suppose to do wonders to audio equipment.

 

kach22i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
7
Location
Michigan
Power goes though the fuse, but does the signal?

Is the amplified signal for right and left channel fused in pre-amp or main amp?

If so, then yes these type of fuse will affect the sound quality.

If no, then I guess you are out of luck or restricted to improving the power quality as in a power cord upgrade.

If your speakers are fused that's another thing - my old AudioLabs (Fisher drivers) had a pop out circuit breaker to protect the tweeter and rest of speaker. Those speakers are why I'm so judgmental of ported speakers/woofers - still hate them and that slobbering bass.
 

risabet

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
Many threads on AA about this subject. Most seem to find that they make a difference and usually an improvement. Checkout the review and commentary below.

HiFi Fuses
 

amey01

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
22
Location
Queensland, Australia
I'm keen to know like George - does the audio signal ever pass through a fuse? I would think in a properly designed component, NO. Is this the case?
 

Rich

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
2
Location
Huntsville, Alabama
Being the skeptic that I am, I would be very surprised if these fuses really made an audible difference in most components. I checked out the referenced AA thread and wasn't convinced in the least by anything I read. It seems like on that forum everybody hears a huge difference with just about every crazy tweak ever thought of. One guy was even saying he could hear a difference in the directionality of the fuses depending on which way they were installed. Give me a break. Others were talking about how they sounded better after break-in. A fuse is a thin metal strip with no insulation but air. What's to break in? Sounds like a classic case of the "placebo effect" to me.

Even if there were a difference, I would expect it to be quite subtle on a quality amp. On expensive amplifiers, these guys are hearing: "more fluid" "more air" "in a word:amazing" "resolution, air, bass impact and realism improved noticeably" and my personal favorite: "slight, but significant improvement" (how is something both slight and significant?). All this just from upgrading the fuses. Yeah, right.

You never hear any of these guys say: "I did a double-blind scientific test and a group of participants was able to pick out the effect of the [fill-in-your-tweak] x amount of times." I am convinced that double-blind testing is really the only way to tell whether you can hear any differences from tweaks like this. Otherwise, there is just too much psychological garbage clouding your perceptions.
 

Cherian

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
1,214
Reaction score
0
AMEN !!!! RICH. This is just what I was thinking.
If a fuse gets warm the impedance gets higher its ability to carry current goes down voltage drop across the fuse is higher (all bad things for power transfer). So why would it sound better after break in(whatever that is)? Put a penny inside the fuse holder and call it a day. In the end it cost you $0.01 and trust me it will sound better :confused:. Just kidding about the penny part but I think you get the idea.
 

eknuds01

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
950
Reaction score
0
Location
Alexandria, VA
Even if there were a difference, I would expect it to be quite subtle on a quality amp. On expensive amplifiers, these guys are hearing: "more fluid" "more air" "in a word:amazing" "resolution, air, bass impact and realism improved noticeably" and my personal favorite: "slight, but significant improvement" (how is something both slight and significant?). All this just from upgrading the fuses. Yeah, right.
This is absolutely hilarious and true. While I admire their enthusiasm, many of those guys go nuts over every minor modification.
 

amey01

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
22
Location
Queensland, Australia
"slight, but significant improvement" (how is something both slight and significant?).
I tried to refrain, but I just can't help to get technical here!!! -

Of course something can be slight *AND* significant. Cutting the wire to your stat panel is a "slight" modification to your 'Logan, but it has a significant effect, right?
 

risabet

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
Though I also question the effect of the high-end fuses, if you haven't listened for yourself you should keep an open mind. Not everything in this hobby is a measurable quantity.
 

Rich

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
2
Location
Huntsville, Alabama
I tried to refrain, but I just can't help to get technical here!!! -

Of course something can be slight *AND* significant. Cutting the wire to your stat panel is a "slight" modification to your 'Logan, but it has a significant effect, right?
I understand. For some of us, myself included, it is impossible to refrain when the bait is just sitting out there . . .

But I think you misconstrue your technicality. What you describe is a slight action with a significant result. The review I was quoting from described a result (an improvement in the sound) that was both slight and significant. How can the improvement in sound be both slight (i.e. small in degree; inconsiderable) and significant (i.e. sufficiently great to be worthy of attention; noteworthy)? Not possible.

Sorry, but I am a lawyer by training. So if you are going to catch me on a technicality, you are going to have to do better than that. :D
 

amey01

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
22
Location
Queensland, Australia
So if you are going to catch me on a technicality, you are going to have to do better than that. :D
OK - small scratch in the veneer on a really prominent part of your 'Logan - "slight" defect, but very significant all the same!!

The damage is "small in degree", but "sufficiently great to be worthy of attention" - especially to those of us that treat our speakers better than our wives!
 
Last edited:

C.A.P

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,049
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Power goes though the fuse, but does the signal?That is the key . If it goes through it , it must have some footprint on sound. I have read so much on removing fuses , especially with Magnepan speakers . They say it degrades the sound. Now that being said I would not run fuse less. with any of my gear(I like the slight insurance it provides) Ill tune around them.

Is the amplified signal for right and left channel fused in pre-amp or main amp?My Krell has a breaker system built in to it. I have never tripped it but I have taken out a breaker on my panel with it . I guess John Daniels and Ritchie Blacmore can do that :D

If so, then yes these type of fuse will affect the sound quality.Im a tweaker type of guy and if its something as simple as a fuse for the placebo effect ,Ill bite. Plus It makes YOU feel better knowing that you beefed it up.

If no, then I guess you are out of luck or restricted to improving the power quality as in a power cord upgrade. I am on the fence with these , I know some of you swear by after market power cords but, I look at my Krell cord and its big and well made. Im not saying Im against it, its just not on the top of my list .

If your speakers are fused that's another thing -
I know my Quest have internal fuses on the X-over board. I have seen them but NEVER blown one. I have pushed these babies hard too.

If its a $20.00 and under tweak for a placebo effect I would try it. It cant hurt! Other than the Jackson you just lost !
 

Rich

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
2
Location
Huntsville, Alabama
Though I also question the effect of the high-end fuses, if you haven't listened for yourself you should keep an open mind. Not everything in this hobby is a measurable quantity.
I understand about keeping an open mind until you hear it for yourself. And I agree that not everything in this hobby is a measurable quantity. But an improvement in sound that is worth paying money for is always measurable, by your own ears. The problem is that if you don't use scientific method & blind testing to ascertain whether the improvement actually occurs, you will most certainly be fooled by psychological factors.

If you can switch back and forth (A/B test) and pick out one vs. the other (in this case, high end fuse vs. regular fuse) more than 50% of the time, then you can honestly say you hear an improvement in sound. If not, then there is no discernable improvement. If you don't do this type of testing, then you are most likely just fooling yourself with a placebo effect and wasting time and money on useless tweaks.

What gets me is how so many guys on AA and other forums go on and on about the huge differences in sound they get from what are obviously minor tweaks that one would expect to only have a subtle effect, if any. The claims they make amazingly mirror the marketing hype from the companies that are charging big bucks for these ridiculous tweaks. And there is never any mention of a true blind test to confirm that the improvements actually occurred. I just don't buy it.

If its a $20.00 and under tweak for a placebo effect I would try it. It cant hurt! Other than the Jackson you just lost !


CAP, these fuses cost $30 to $45 a piece, vs. about $9 for a quality commercial-grade fuse like what came with your amp. If you have to replace fuses in your speakers, as well as those in your amp, this tweak could run into the hundreds of dollars!
 

risabet

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
I understand about keeping an open mind until you hear it for yourself. And I agree that not everything in this hobby is a measurable quantity. But an improvement in sound that is worth paying money for is always measurable, by your own ears. The problem is that if you don't use scientific method & blind testing to ascertain whether the improvement actually occurs, you will most certainly be fooled by psychological factors.
Not to go off topic but I am not convinced that BT provides an accurate measure of differences in an audio system. As someone trained in biology I appreciate the scientific method but I also accept that the reductionist approach that it embodies is not valid for all issues.

If you can switch back and forth (A/B test) and pick out one vs. the other (in this case, high end fuse vs. regular fuse) more than 50% of the time, then you can honestly say you hear an improvement in sound. If not, then there is no discernable improvement. If you don't do this type of testing, then you are most likely just fooling yourself with a placebo effect and wasting time and money on useless tweaks.
All listening is affected by psychological factors, our moods and time of day plus many other things contribute to our state of mind which definitely effects the functioning of our senses, thus IMO psychological factors are quite real in their effects but not necessarily amenable to A/B testing validity.


What gets me is how so many guys on AA and other forums go on and on about the huge differences in sound they get from what are obviously minor tweaks that one would expect to only have a subtle effect, if any. The claims they make amazingly mirror the marketing hype from the companies that are charging big bucks for these ridiculous tweaks. And there is never any mention of a true blind test to confirm that the improvements actually occurred. I just don't buy it.
Definitely not a place where the DBT is looked upon kindly, but the guys @ AA are IME credible, sensitive listeners who report what they hear. Though sometimes given to hyperbole, they are dedicated to getting the best sound from their gear as possible. There are many paths to the truth.
 

zatoichi

Active member
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwich CT
The reason I asked is because, as many of you have commented, the AudioAsylum is often full of nonsense. I was wondering what someone here experienced with the fancy fuses.

Anyway, back to the Asylum: I don't think you should dismiss the entire forum. Some, like Al Sekela and Unclestu52, know lots more about audio than any of us. I know Stu personally and he's at least ten years ahead of me. Nevertheless, they have not commented on the fuses, but David Magnan likes them. And, I assure you David Magnan is not a fraud.
 

Rich

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
2
Location
Huntsville, Alabama
Not to go off topic but I am not convinced that BT provides an accurate measure of differences in an audio system. As someone trained in biology I appreciate the scientific method but I also accept that the reductionist approach that it embodies is not valid for all issues.
Come on, Risabet. Guys are constantly saying they hear things like: "amazing increase in extension and air;" "deeper tighter lows;" "more extended and airy highs;" "more liquid mids;" "deeper wider soundstage;" etc. etc. They are describing mind-blowing upgrades in their system's sound from every tweak imaginable. They say they know their systems inside and out and can hear the slightest difference a tweak makes. But you throw a double blind test in there and they can't pick out A from B even half the time. And you are going to tell me it is because the test isn't an accurate method of measurement?

Either you can hear the effects of a tweak and can pick out the difference in sound or you can't. It is really that simple. If you can't, then it isn't likely the test that is invalid. To say that you can hear all of these changes that a tweak makes, but then that you can't pick it out from the control in a standardized test because the test is a faulty way of measuring such things . . . that just sounds like a copout to me.

All listening is affected by psychological factors, our moods and time of day plus many other things contribute to our state of mind which definitely effects the functioning of our senses, thus IMO psychological factors are quite real in their effects but not necessarily amenable to A/B testing validity.
Not buying it. Tests can easily be designed to control for these factors. By using several different test subjects and repeating the tests at random times, among other ways. Again, we are talking about improvements that people say are obvious and easy to hear. The often-used line: "My girlfriend noticed the improvement immediately and she knows nothing about audio," comes to mind. You are going to tell me that the sorts of improvements these guys are reporting are credible, but that time of day and mood, among other psychological factors, is going to invalidate A/B testing as a way to determine whether they really can hear a difference? Again, sounds like a copout.

Definitely not a place where the DBT is looked upon kindly, but the guys @ AA are IME credible, sensitive listeners who report what they hear. Though sometimes given to hyperbole, they are dedicated to getting the best sound from their gear as possible. There are many paths to the truth.
There are many paths to the truth, and everyone's truth is different. But I think in this hobby more than just about any other, hundreds and thousands of dollars are wasted all the time on tweaks that have no basis in science, are fueled by marketing and hyperbole, and result in no real improvement in sound, only perceived improvement based on the placebo effect. It is just like that study that came out recently that showed when people knew a wine cost more, that it tasted better to them.

Most of the time when we spend good money on a tweak, we convince ourselves that we hear improvements in sound, even when there is no real discernible improvement. These purchases are fueled by marketing hype from the companies and lemming-like behavior on the internet forums. You get a couple of dozen guys talking up a tweak on the forums, and suddenly it becomes a mass movement and everybody has to have that tweak or they feel like their system is not reaching its full potential. And the results of these tweaks are always mind-blowing, but never measurable.

Again I come back to the simple fact that either you hear a real difference in the sound, in which case you should be able to pick it out in an A/B test, or you don't hear a discernible difference, in which case you are wasting your money on the tweak in question. That is my truth.
 

Rich

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
4,138
Reaction score
2
Location
Huntsville, Alabama
The reason I asked is because, as many of you have commented, the AudioAsylum is often full of nonsense.

Anyway, back to the Asylum: I don't think you should dismiss the entire forum. Some . . . know lots more about audio than any of us.
Definitely agree with those statements.
 
Top