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Descent i vs Deph i

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benleeys

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I've developed a headache trying to decide which option to take regarding the new ML subs.

Sub . . . . . . . Descent i . . . . . . . . . . . Depth i
Components . 3 x 10". . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 x 8"
Frequency . . . 18-120 Hz. . . . . . . . . . . 20-120 Hz
Amp . . . . . . . 3 x 250 W (0.24% THD). . 350 W (0.5% THD)

Room . . . . . . 23'L x 16'W x 8'H
Front . . . . . . Summits
Center . . . . . Stage
Surround. . . . Passage
Funds . . . . . . Rob the neighbourhood bank

Problem . . . . . Settle on 1 x Descent i or 2 x Depth i ?

Shippment is on its way. Queue is developing at the dealer's door and he needs an answer soon so he can allocate limited supply.

Would be most grateful for opinions from the ML fraternity. Please?

Ben :(
 
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DTB300

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Most opinions that I have read, from people in the know about subs and integretion, state that getting your sound right is easier with two rather than one.

For myself, I would probably purchase a Decent now, and save up for another Decent if I was thinking of having two as my final configuration. I just like the Decent better than the Depth.

Dan
 

IWalker

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I'd go with the descent if you can get 2 (I second that vote) but otherwise the depths. The additional room modes should help out a lot...and you'll have similar output between 2 depths and 1 summit. They're both very nice subs.
 

theWB

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For myself, I would probably purchase a Decent now, and save up for another Decent if I was thinking of having two as my final configuration. I just like the Decent better than the Depth.

Dan
I also prefer the Descent and as Dan says you can always add a second later.You might be able to pick up a couple of Descents at a good price from your dealer rather than getting the Descent i.
 

benleeys

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Thank you all for letting me have your thoughts on the subs. It is true that 2 subs are easier to place in a room. However, my own thinking is that the Descents are powerful beasts, capable of 750w each. Won't having 2 of these in the room be an overkill? The Summits are already good for 24Hz compared to 18Hz for the Descent and 20Hz for the Depth. That's the reason I was toying with the idea of a pair of Depths instead, each capable of only 350w.
Ben
 
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Robin

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Decissions, Decissions...

Thank you all for letting me have your thoughts on the subs. It is true that 2 subs are easier to place in a room. However, my own thinking is that the Descents are powerful beasts, capable of 750w each. Won't having 2 of these in the room be an overkill? The Summits are already good for 24Hz compared to 18Hz for the Descent and 20Hz for the Depth. That's the reason I was toying with the idea of a pair of Depths instead, each capable of only 350w.
Ben
Ben,

I don't know that I'd "rob the nieborhood bank" as you will not be able to enjoy your wonderful system from jail... :p However, I think the Descent i would be marvelous with your set-up because just one Descent i with your Summits IMHO is all you will ever need. If..., God forbid you really want even more bass you could always aquire another Descent i down the road... ;)

For my ears though, just one Descent is more than enough for my HT, even then I have to keep it turned down or I start getting that wind-blown look with my hair... :eek1: :D
 

timm

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Has anyone heard the descent i? Any opinions of the diffs between the descent i & the 'old' descent? thanks tim
 

IWalker

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besides...if you already are flat to 24 Hz...you're really only gaining 4 Hz extension with the depths, and 6 with the descent. Howabout a BagEnd Infrasub-18??? (not to speak heresey) Flat down to 8Hz. Supposedly not super huge output, but very low extension...so would add "more" to your system. Also supposed to be very musical and "fast" sounding. I'm considering that sub if I can't afford to get the descent/descent i when I go to get one.

If it's between the descent and depth, you're getting an extra 50% added extension over your summits (vs the depth...6Hz vs 4Hz)). That's pretty significant. OTOH, you're only gaining 4-6 Hz in extension...so the gains will be pretty small overall, I think, as there isn't a ton of material in the 18/20-24Hz range.
 

amey01

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Is this for movies or music? If it is for music then probably two are easier to place (as others have said). However if it is for movies then the extra range and power in the Descent might be handy. Musically, they are both great subs. Of course, two Descents would be great!!
 

lexor

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sub

if you have a pocessor that has a sub output for left and right i would go with the 2 depths especially for music. if not just use one Descent. happy listening.
 

benleeys

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Tough decision. :meditate:

Robin - Not to worry, got fullproof plan for the heist. :D Am presently using a borrowed old Descent for HT and it's already awsome. The 'i' has got even more watts, so 2 of them shud be capable of sailing off with your wig!

IWalker - 8Hz flat. You're not joking! I experienced a pure 16Hz note with the Genesis once. Can't say I heard anything at all, but could feel the hairs on my arms move. :eek:

amey01 - Mainly for HT use. Strangely, sustained low frequency effects can produce a nauseous effect in me. Am actually concerned that 2 Descents might be capable of bringing down my 130lb CRT projector from the ceiling.

lexor - Was thinking along those lines myself, but most of us seem to be of the view that 2 Descents is the ultimate.

Maybe I shud bring a pair each in and try them out for a while and hope my neighbours upstairs and downstairs will not be breaking down my front door.

Ben
 

IWalker

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You have neighbors upstairs and downstairs!? I don't think they'd be happy to see this thread :p

The advantages of more "woofage" is lower distortion and greater headroom for a given volume. If you have neighbors up and down, the volumes you'd be listening at I would think would be well within the range of even 1 depth. (ie, the distortion figures between the depth and descent would be similar at those volumes...and you would likely have enough headroom as well with 1 depth)

Therefore, either go for the extra extension (bagend type sub) with reduced output (since you aren't going to be trying to flex the walls, I hope for the sake of your neighbors) or an extra depth to aid in placement. I believe the bagends are about the price of the depths, so you could even get 2 of those as another option :p

If it's for music only, and you just want the ability "way down there" so that you cover the entire spectrum, but you're not a big fan of sustained LFE output (for your own stomach and the sake of your neighbors)...I think the bagend solution best accomplishes (on paper at least) what you're looking for. Just my 2c. From what I can tell, they're less "pretty" than the depths and descents though, for whatever that's worth to you.

I'm not sure if there are any places that stock bagends that would let you try them out in house for 30 days (trying to do that over the net would kill you with shipping) so you could compare them side by side with the MLs. It would be very interesting to hear your impressions. All 3 are fantasticly musical subs.
 

jfm

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Wait...do Summits really need subs for music? Hope to hear from Summit owners about this.

For HT, well, I'd say go for one Descent now, then add another later, then add a third one for the center channel only!
 

benleeys

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You have neighbors upstairs and downstairs!? I don't think they'd be happy to see this thread :p
Am on the 19th floor. Thank goodness, I do not have neighbours to the right or left! When I did up my HT, I glued cork sheets on concrete before laying Brazilian teak on top for the flooring, since I could find no one to do me a floating floor. I also put in a false ceiling. All these expense just to spare my upstairs and downstairs neighbours the urge to break down my front door.

Sigh, the Bagend people here are not as friendly as the ML ones, so think I can forget about those, though I do know they're great subs.

Folks, thank you all so much for your input so far. I have this feeling I'll eventually end up with a pair of Descents. But just to be sure, I'll be trying out a pair of Depths too. Oh, BTW, you should see pics of the 'i' series. They look really great, compared to the old ones. Instead of fabric, they come in the familiar ML grills.
Ben
 
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babydoc

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Descents for Summits: How much is enough?

I currently am running HT system with 2 Descents with Summits, Stage center and Script i surrounds. Will be adding two Descent i's when they are shipped. If my math is correct, this will make a 4 sub system with 16 10" woofers counting those in the Summits! The reason for 4 subs is to smooth out low bass response in all areas of the room without needing to use the parametric equalizer in my processor. There is a nice article in Sound & Vision a couple of months ago about the 4 subwoofer approach. Since all of these subs can be adjusted for phase and volume, placement is less critical and they can be discretely located in my room which is 21 x 15 feet.
 

benleeys

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Hi babydoc,

I think that's a great way to avoid having to shift those heavy beasts around. But it does make quite a hole in the pocket to have 4 Descents. Maybe I should try 4 Depths instead (about the price of 2 Descents).

Did you achieve the results you seeked?

Ben
 

IWalker

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Not to continue spouting heresey...but are you handy at all...have any woodworking tools, or friends who do? Something I'm considering as an alternative to the bag end(s) at a much lower price point, are

http://rythmikaudio.com/servo_product.htm The 12" servo product. It's $429 without a box. That gives you all sorts of options for building a box (which are VERY easy to build as speaker construction goes...someone with a decent set of tools could build a decent one in probably 2-3 hours.)

It's supposed to go down flat to around 10Hz, though you can read up more on the measurements.

Each 12" moves about as much air as 1.5 10" or 2.25 8" drivers with the same excursion capabilities. So, 2 of these (at under $1000 fully constructed, depending on quality of the box) would equal the output of the descent, while going much lower. If you like woodworking, it's a fun and easy project.

What I'm planning on doing with mine (if I do decide to go this route) is making some pedestals to put in the front corners of my room, with the subs downfiring, and the amp on the back (and maybe some backlighting) and to put a plant or vase or somethign on top of them. Who even needs to know you have 2 serious subs working! :D

The servo technology keeps the distortion very very low...and with the high dampening setting, the sub should sound very fast.
 

timm

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Not to continue spouting heresey...but are you handy at all...have any woodworking tools, or friends who do? Something I'm considering as an alternative to the bag end(s) at a much lower price point, are

http://rythmikaudio.com/servo_product.htm The 12" servo product. It's $429 without a box. That gives you all sorts of options for building a box (which are VERY easy to build as speaker construction goes...someone with a decent set of tools could build a decent one in probably 2-3 hours.)

It's supposed to go down flat to around 10Hz, though you can read up more on the measurements.

Each 12" moves about as much air as 1.5 10" or 2.25 8" drivers with the same excursion capabilities. So, 2 of these (at under $1000 fully constructed, depending on quality of the box) would equal the output of the descent, while going much lower. If you like woodworking, it's a fun and easy project.

What I'm planning on doing with mine (if I do decide to go this route) is making some pedestals to put in the front corners of my room, with the subs downfiring, and the amp on the back (and maybe some backlighting) and to put a plant or vase or somethign on top of them. Who even needs to know you have 2 serious subs working! :D

The servo technology keeps the distortion very very low...and with the high dampening setting, the sub should sound very fast.
Hey let us know if you do this. This DOES look like a fun project. I think even I could probably do it!:D What type of wood do you think you would go with? Bubinga?? :)
 

IWalker

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Hmmm...you're way ahead of me on that! I'd probably use MDF, and veneer it with something with an interesting grain. I'd build the box first to make sure it sounds how I like before I fancy it up. It probably won't happen for a while, but I'll certainly post pictures if/when I do it.
 

benleeys

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Not to continue spouting heresey...but are you handy at all...have any woodworking tools, or friends who do?
Kind of difficult to do any serious woodworking in an apartment now though my tools are still around. In the early 70's I built my own folded-horn speakers with the Tannoy Monitor Gold units. Spent 2 weeks recovering from rashes brought on by the fibreglass wool stuffing, but Jim Reeves never sounded so good with them (the speakers, I mean)! But still, it's an interesting thought .......

Ben
 
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