Denon x2400 pushing CSLs?

[BAR707]

Hey all, picking up a NIB set of 2017/18 CSLs tomorrow. I am using a Denon x2400h currently and want to know what the upper limit of my listening volume might be with it. I understand that the impedance can dip below 2 at points and higher drive demand correlates of course, but how do I know how much is *too* much with out frying my AVR/speakers?

 

[Gordon Gray]

If you think it is a possibility, I would suggest you become proactive and get gear that will function well for you before you fry your speakers. Just a thought. Good luck.

 

[BAR707]

If you think it is a possibility, I would suggest you become proactive and get gear that will function well for you before you fry your speakers. Just a thought. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. Of course if that was in my budget right now I would, but it’s not, which is why I’m asking here - so I can be safe in the mean time. I’ve never owned a set of speakers that have varying loads like this.

Sure, I’ve fried some drivers in my day pushing too hard w/ clipped signals, too much gain yadda yadda. I at least understand those boundaries. However I don’t know the boundary of these speakers in particular.

Just looking for some insight as to what that might look like before I hit it.
Thanks again for your time.

 

[Robert D]

When I got my Prodigies, I didn't use them at all until I got a proper amp. If you can get a new amp within the next 6 months or so, I'd just store them in your home until you are ready.

You say it's new in box, that confuses me. These are speakers made in 2017 but never used? Do you have any kind of warranty? Depending on how long it is, you'll probably want to test them out soon. So that complicates things.

 

[BAR707]

When I got my Prodigies, I didn't use them at all until I got a proper amp. If you can get a new amp within the next 6 months or so, I'd just store them in your home until you are ready.

You say it's new in box, that confuses me. These are speakers made in 2017 but never used? Do you have any kind of warranty? Depending on how long it is, you'll probably want to test them out soon. So that complicates things.

Yes exactly, no warranty. Private seller. From what we talked about over the phone he has quite a few stats in his home already. He bought these and then came upon some deals on better models soon after. Never opened them.

I ask about driving these used with an AVR because I thought I watched a video or read somewhere that many owners were using these w/AVRs, I just wanted to see how feasible that is. I know I’ve read at least a few threads where owners have been using them exclusively with an AVR. Playing moderate levels is safe at least right, it’s just turning up high that is the danger zone?

 

[msimanyi]

I'm with Robert D on this. You can test them at fairly low volume levels just to make sure everything's working, then store them. Even a Schiit Vidar should be fine with these, and if you upgrade later to a better amp it and an AVR or processor that can do pre-outs, you can move the Vidar to support your center channel or surrounds.

You *really* want to avoid the all-in-one AVR amps any time you can.

Side note: I'm using two Vidars for my surround and rear surround speakers. They're overkill there, but I *love* overkill.

 

[BAR707]

I'm with Robert D on this. You can test them at fairly low volume levels just to make sure everything's working, then store them. Even a Schiit Vidar should be fine with these, and if you upgrade later to a better amp it and an AVR or processor that can do pre-outs, you can move the Vidar to support your center channel or surrounds.

You *really* want to avoid the all-in-one AVR amps any time you can.

Side note: I'm using two Vidars for my surround and rear surround speakers. They're overkill there, but I *love* overkill.

Thanks for the insight. Want to sell me one of those amps? I actually have zone 2 pre outs which can be configured for 2 channel L/R and a sub. Which, coincidentally, is all I’ll be running for now till I can afford a matching center channel.
So, I suppose I need to pick up an amp. 700 bucks plus tax is high, but I’m not totally opposed. Typically I like to buy used to avoid tax and get better deals. What else would you all recommend I pick up as far as an amp? I plan to upgrade to the next level up Denon which full zone pre outs in the future as well.

 

[msimanyi]

Well, the good news is if you get the Vidar, it'll be great in the future as a center channel amp or surround amp, and you'll be getting the full warranty period for support. (I'm happy with mine and will keep them, thank you very much!)

If / when you can spend a wee bit more, I recently added some Odyssey Audio amps and really like them. I believe their entry level Khartago has received quite favorable reviews, and isn't much more than the Vidar... though you may have to wait a while to get it. Odyssey is a smaller operation and the lead times have crept up.

I went with Kismet innards in Khartago cases, along with several upgrades. I don't mind the basic cases, as these are in an electronics closet. Link: Khartago Stereo Amplifier - Odyssey Audio

But there are TONS of ways to go for your amp(s), so spend some enjoyable time reading and considering.

 

[StimpyWan]

Your Denon does not have main preamp out jacks. And as you mentioned, it does have Zone 2 pre-outs. But, on some AVR's, preamp outputs for other Zones, are not variable outputs. They're fixed in level. So, to use those, you might have to add an integrated amp, or a preamp/amp combination, in order to control the volume of the add on amp. As such, I'd look for something better suited for your new speakers. Something that can power them properly, without risk of damage to either the amp or the speakers.

Also "CSLs"? Which models are those. Not being cheeky, I just don't know all of the various ML models.

Thanks.

 

[rhd1953]

Hey all, picking up a NIB set of 2017/18 CSLs tomorrow. I am using a Denon x2400h currently and want to know what the upper limit of my listening volume might be with it. I understand that the impedance can dip below 2 at points and higher drive demand correlates of course, but how do I know how much is *too* much with out frying my AVR/speakers?

Are you planning on using the CLS's in a home theater setup, or as a stereo setup?
Do you have any subs?
Do you have an old stereo pre amp?
What's your price range?

Does your Denon AVR-x2400h have an option to roll off the main speakers and pass the bottom to the subs?
My used Anthem AVM 30 preamp($300) has that option. It reduces the CLS driving load.
Your Denon is listed with 95 w @ 8 ohms(20-20khz) and 185 w @ 6 ohms(@1kHz), not sure what it really does at 4 ohms, much less 2 ohms. You really want an amp with increased output at 4 and 2 ohms for the CLS.

I've been using ClassDaudio SMA power amps ($650) to drive CLS2s and I am now driving Magnepan LRS and 0.7 speakers with ClassDaudio amps.

I've found good used stereo preamps, but very few listings for used power amps.

 

[Brad225]

Welcome BAR707.

I'm confused. The CLS was discontinued in 1989. How can they be new in box from 2017/18?

As for the Denon It may work but you may damage both depending on how hard they are driven. You won't know until it's too late.

 

[BAR707]

Welcome BAR707.

I'm confused. The CLS was discontinued in 1989. How can they be new in box from 2017/18?

As for the Denon It may work but you may damage both depending on how hard they are driven. You won't know until it's too late.

Wow what a typo! Thank you for being this up - they are ELS, as in the entry level stats from ML.

 

[BAR707]

Are you planning on using the CLS's in a home theater setup, or as a stereo setup?
Do you have any subs?
Do you have an old stereo pre amp?
What's your price range?

Does your Denon AVR-x2400h have an option to roll off the main speakers and pass the bottom to the subs?
My used Anthem AVM 30 preamp($300) has that option. It reduces the CLS driving load.
Your Denon is listed with 95 w @ 8 ohms(20-20khz) and 185 w @ 6 ohms(@1kHz), not sure what it really does at 4 ohms, much less 2 ohms. You really want an amp with increased output at 4 and 2 ohms for the CLS.

I've been using ClassDaudio SMA power amps ($650) to drive CLS2s and I am now driving Magnepan LRS and 0.7 speakers with ClassDaudio amps.

I've found good used stereo preamps, but very few listings for used power amps.

These will be used as 70/30 stereo/HT.

I have an HSU VTF15h that the Denon is crossing over at 80hz. My front stage is set to small and also crossed at 80 of course.

The Zone 2 pre outs are configurable as an L/R front stage in the set up menu, so I assume they are controlled by volume and not require a preamp in addition to an amp.

Price range is sub $1k for an amp at this point. Room is not ideal for a 5.1 unless I go with in-wall ceiling drivers in the future, which I may, but I’d probably let the AVR drive them. So I’m looking for a 2 or 3 channel amp. 2ch will get me by for the next year or two I’d venture to say.

I see acc4less has some x3xxx models from Denon that I believe have preouts. I have two TVs in my viewing room that require an AVR with two simultaneous HDMI outputs, so I’ll probably stick with Denon for that given it’s ease of use.

 

[StimpyWan]

I have EM-ESL's as well. I've powered them with my Yamaha RX-A3030 AVR without issue. It's 150 watts into 8 Ohms. Plus, the Yamaha specs into 2 Ohms as well. I've also used an Adcom GFA-5400 125 watt amp, and an Aragon 2004 MKii 100 watt amp. The Aragon is very decent, and specs into 1 Ohm loads.

The Adcom is Mosfet based, and is slightly warmer in tone. The Aragon is more neutral and detailed. Both amps can be found within your budget. They had 3 channel versions too.

Good luck.

 

[Brad225]

We have a pair of ELS in our living room that were a very early pair. Your Denon will have no problem driving them.
They are amazing speakers for the size. You will be very happy with them.