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kach22i

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Hype or the real deal?

http://www.hifi-zubehoer.info/index...Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&frame=small



The Cable Company www.fatwyre.com sent me this today.

Furutech DeMag

For several years, we have recommended the Furutech RD2 disc demagnetizer for those listeners that wanted to improve the sound of their CD playback. Furutech has now discontinued this product and replaced it with a new product called the DeMag. While several times the price of the RD2, the DeMag has taken the demagnetization process to new levels, and to additional audio products. The research and documentation of the before/after testing, and the feedback from their Beta testers, all confirm just how effective the DeMag can be in removing magnetism from CD's, DVD, cables, and LP's???????

Yes, we said LP (vinyl album) playback is improved after treatment on the DeMag. Before you call the men in the white coats on us, let me explain this a bit. The pigments used to make an LP black in color contain ferrous materials. These materials have been shown to retain magnetic fields and therefore hold static charges during playback of an LP. The treatment of the LP with Furutech's DeMag eliminates this magnetism, which allows the LP playback to be quieter, with a blacker background, less surface noise, and more "air" at higher frequencies.

CD's spin at a high rate of speed as they play, which induces a magnetic field. This magnetic field causes read and retry errors, and as the read error rate increases, the correction circuitry works harder, and the sound of the CD is less open and realistic. After treatment of the CD (or DVD) on the Furutech DeMag, the playback has less magnetically-induced distortion, resulting in high frequencies that sound cleaner and more lifelike than before, as well as better imaging and more depth to the soundstage. In the case of video DVD's the picture is sharper and clearer, with less smearing during rapid motion sequences. The older and more frequently played the disc, the more pronounced the improvement with treatment.

Finally, the DeMag allows you to demagnetize signal cables and power cords. These cables tend to suffer from magnetic build-up over time, and treatment of the cables with the DeMag removes this residual condition, allowing you to hear more of the system and less of the veil of magnetism on the cables, that blocks some of the delicate nuances so important to experienced listener.

If you want to read all of the testing, technical arguments, and view the charts and graphs of the before and after treatment of the DeMag, please visit Furutech's website.

From now until the 15th of October, save $250 on the Furutech DeMag - regularly priced at $1800 - special introductory price - $1550.
Didn't Radio Shack used to make something for $20 for DeMaging tapes?
 

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aliveatfive

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See Fremer's column in this month's S'phile. I believe he said it worked. As a matter of fact, he reviewed models from 2 different companies. I think I'll wait until someone produces a knock-off at a reasonable price.
 

Tube60

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I don't see how a spinning plastic disc with aluminum in it can induce a magnetic field, or an LP either. But if it does, and this company can verify it, a degaussing ring for CRTs would do the same thing as their expensive piece of kit for about thirty bucks. Personally, I'm really skeptical. My .02
 

Rich

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Can you say "BullShit?"

Sounds like a clever marketing gimmick designed to separate you from your hard-earned cash. Let's look at this logically. Do you really believe a c.d. (plastic and aluminum) can create a magnetic field just from the effects of spinning? Quick test: put a recently spinned cd next to a compass. Does it make the needle move? Do the same thing with the weakest magnet you can find. Observe the difference. CDs have no measurable magnetic fields.

Also, even if it did generate a magnetic field, how could this possibly affect the laser (light beam) reading the cd layer. It couldn't. It doesn't. It is pure B.S.

But these guys are going to charge you thousands of dollars for a device that will remove this non-measurable magnetic field from your discs, and the guys at stereophile are going to tell you that it works, because unfortunately, that's their job and there is no money to be made for them to say otherwise.

I hate the thought of people wasting money on such obvious marketing gimmicks when there is so much incredibly cool technology out there to waste your money on. ;)

Then again, I'm the guy who was promoting the use of ear candles, so what do I know? :rolleyes:
 

kach22i

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Tube60 said:
I don't see how a spinning plastic disc with aluminum in it can induce a magnetic field, or an LP either
I used to build a lot of models as a kid. Several of them came with spools of copper or aluminum wire so you could spin your own wire and make a motor. I could never get those to work, and only the expensive tank models came with pre-built electric motors back then, they worked fine.;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor
 

Rich

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Not quite the same thing. . .

kach22i said:
I used to build a lot of models as a kid. Several of them came with spools of copper or aluminum wire so you could spin your own wire and make a motor. I could never get those to work, and only the expensive tank models came with pre-built electric motors back then, they worked fine.;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor
Kach,

I'm not sure if you are making a serious comparison here or just joking, but I'll bite anyway.

I don't think you can compare an electromagnet, where the magnetic field is created by electricity running through the spinning coils of wire, to a c.d. spinning in your player, which has no electricity applied to it, only rotational force and a laser light beam.

Also, the magnetic field created by an electromagnet disappears as soon as the electricity is turned off. I'm no physics professor, but as far as I know there is no "residual" magnetic field left over that would need to be demagnetized, and even if there were, I still can't see how this could affect the ability of a laser to read the disk.

I imagine fingerprints on the disk cause a lot more read errors than "residual magnetism." By the way, I have a very expensive fingerprint cleaning device for sale only to a select few. I guess I need to get one over to stereophile for review. Then I'll be able to afford those Statement E2's. ;)
 

Tube60

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This device looks to be exactly the right size to have a simple degaussing ring hiding inside it. I'd bet that thing costs about twelve bucks for the MFR to make. If they're measuring a magnetic field while a CD or LP is spinning, are they allowing for the fields generated by the DC motor that's spinning them? That's an active field generated, and even if a disc somehow does create it's own field, it would be effortlessly swamped by the motor. Also aluminum or vinyl cannot store magnetic energy like ferrous metal or audio / video tape, or tape heads can, and you can't de-mag a motor, otherwise it won't work! Pure snake oil here as far as I'm concerned. Who remembers the special green pen to treat the edges of a CD that was supposed to make marvelous sound improvements? I tried it and it made absolutely no difference! :D
 

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Tube60

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I'm going to get rid of the drive motors in my players and replace them with a water-driven wheel in the creek. That'll eliminate ANY induced magnetic fields around the discs. Regulation might be tough though...... and the belts and pulleys going into the listening room might be a challenge..... ;)
Anyone interested? :rolleyes:
 

lugano

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I'd rather invest in something that promises me to raise my listening frequency to 16'000 Hz up from the 14'500 it is right now, than in this pure bullshit snake oil. Cable raisers, yeah, copper bracelets, et caetera... if you read some sound engineers' forums you will be very disappointed, these guys mock us up steadily. We buy 20 inch cables for $1000 and pretend we hear the difference, they must deal with 200 meters of cable and they are the boys and girls that record what we listen to...
 

Tube60

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lugano said:
I'd rather invest in something that promises me to raise my listening frequency to 16'000 Hz up from the 14'500 it is right now, than in this pure bullshit snake oil. Cable raisers, yeah, copper bracelets, et caetera... if you read some sound engineers' forums you will be very disappointed, these guys mock us up steadily. We buy 20 inch cables for $1000 and pretend we hear the difference, they must deal with 200 meters of cable and they are the boys and girls that record what we listen to...
I agree exactly with your sentiments! I wonder how many people will fall for the DeMag. And they say that LPs contain ferrous compounds.....I wonder about that. Last time I checked it's carbon black that gives them their color. In many ways I'm glad I'm a DIYer. If I need exotic wire for whatever, I go to industrial salvage yards and get Teflon jacketed, stranded silver wire for pennies on the dollar. Unfortunately they don't supply it with an expensive box-jointed hardwood case, but.... I think I'll survive! I use that wire in my amplifiers, and it works great. One of these days I'll get enough to make up a set of speaker cables. I probably won't notice the difference. I use Malibu Lighting low-voltage, 12 guage, direct-bury wire. It's got very good quality copper wire in it, and the insulation is thick and very durable to hold up to its intended use. And it actually does sound different than other wires I've tried!
 

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Tube60 said:
I agree exactly with your sentiments! I wonder how many people will fall for the DeMag

Actually , a lot will fall. We despise Viagra spam mails, but this IS Viagra for audiophiles. It's a very perverse info - very on the spot for males around 40 with a good budget, like most of us are on this forum. Remember - males are always around shopping for toys. The only thing that changes with age is the toys' price.
 

kach22i

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Rich said:
Kach,

I'm not sure if you are making a serious comparison here or just joking, but I'll bite anyway.
I'm not going to quote the work or experiments of Tesla or Edison, just don't have the time.

Just ponder for a moment about a rotating mass of metal which we all know about, and we know it generates magnetic poles.

Nature/God made it, and it's called Earth's core.




NASA:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm
 

Rich

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Not the same thing

kach22i said:
I'm not going to quote the work or experiments of Tesla or Edison, just don't have the time.

Just ponder for a moment about a rotating mass of metal which we all know about, and we know it generates magnetic poles.

Nature/God made it, and it's called Earth's core.

Kach,

Again, I don't think this information is relevant to the discussion at hand. The earth's core has a high iron content. Iron exhibits magnetic properties and can hold residual magnetism. CDs have a thin aluminum layer. Aluminum is non-magnetic. It exhibits no magnetic properties and can hold no residual magnetism. If the earth's core were solid aluminum, we would have no magnetic poles. I don't think the work of Tesla or Edison contradicts any of this.

Also, I still don't see how residual magnetism in a CD, even if it did exist, could possibly affect a laser's ability to read a CD layer.

If a company is going to charge thousands of dollars for a device that "fixes" a problem that no one in the industry seems to have known even existed, wouldn't you like to see some actual scientific proof from the company of the existence of the problem and the effectiveness of the fix. Go to their website. They offer no scientific evidence for any of their claims. I still say it is snake oil of the highest order and I'm sorry for anyone who wastes their money on it. This is just my humble opinion, of course.
 

kach22i

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Rich said:
Kach,

Again, I don't think this information is relevant to the discussion at hand.
I'm just having fun shooting ideas across and seeing if any of it sticks. Guess not.;)

I posted the DeMag device because I smelled something fishy. Not one person said it should work and why. Guess that means we have a consensus - it's snake oil. :)

Is there any iron in vinyl? If so, I'd say it's so small it could not make a difference, although the causes of static is sometimes a mystery to me.
 

Rich

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Good Topic

kach22i said:
I'm just having fun shooting ideas across and seeing if any of it sticks. Guess not.;)
That's cool. I think it's a great discussion to have. We have a lot of members with a vast amount of collective knowledge and experience, and I think it is useful to everyone to engage in these types of analytical discussions.

To me, the bigger issue is not that these guys are trying to make a killing off of snake oil, but that audiophile magazines like stereophile are promoting them without any scientific analysis whatsoever. If they are going to push a product like this with no independant scientific verification of its effectiveness, why should we care what they say about Martin Logan or any other component? They are about as honest as the grocery store tabloids. Which is what makes forums like this so important to participate in. Thanks for bringing up this topic.
 
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