Crap! Just heard the Summit X - opinions wanted

[Bruce Weiland]

Hi guys and gals,

I was at my local dealer yesterday. He had finally moved his Summits on and unboxed the Summit X 's that he had sitting in the store for several months.

He hadn't opened them because he thought they couldn't be that different.

His store is NOT optimized as most high-end stores are. Even so I was blown away by the beauty of the mid-range. I just could not get over how sweet they were.

He was using an older McI DVD for the source, playing a "black" CD of Diana Krall, The Look of Love, that I had ripped and burned a few years ago for him to hear how much better it sounded then his original CD.

The preamp was a McI C2200, which I had tried on loan, so I was familiar with it. Nice preamp, but one can do better.

And a pair of 500 watt McI mono blocks, with Audioquest interconnects and Volcano, that I had also heard in my own system.

They were not using any power conditioning and the wiring and circuits in the building are circa 1940.

I had heard Summits in his store many times, but OH MY GOD! Those Summit X's were doing things I had never heard from any of that gear.

OK. Now to the opinions, especially from anyone who has heard both speakers, hopefully with the same equipment.

What can you say about the midrange of the Prodigy compared to the Summit X????

I already know about the woofers, and the better blending. I am most interested in differences you have heard, especially with voices between the two speakers.

Thanks for the input.

Bruce

 

[Dan Osib]

The Prodigy has a degree of forwardness in the upper midrange while the Summit X has a neutral midrange. This can make the Prodigy sound more exciting than the Summit X, but to people who prefer a slightly laidback sound this can appear a bit too much for their ears after a while of listening. I'd stick with the Prodigy as it's already got legendary status. Plus it looks ten times better than the minimalist design of the Summit X. I don't think you will hear an improvement changing to Summits. Your system is plenty good enough as it is. If you want to hear further gains from your system you should be working on your hi-fi mains supply. Look at mains purifiers and possibly conditioners. Conditioners don't always work for some hi-fi systems but when they do work the improvement can be quite special indeed (more holographic sound/clearer also). If you want to hear a significant improvement on the cheap, remove all the fuses in each of your mains plugs/mains distribution board (ONLY) and replace them with solid copper bars. Now listen to your system and be prepared for a shock. You should hear a significant lift in sound quality. Apparently a lot of magazine reviewers are using this cheap tweak on the quiet and basking in the positive results. According to various specialists- all fuses no matter how good they are, degrade/strangle and hold back the sound quality somewhat. Remember, only do the fuse removal tweak if you have an RCD built into the CONSUMER UNIT (electrical box) on the wall elsewhere in your home. The RCD will instantly switch off all the electrics in your home if there is an electrical surge or problem, which in turn will protect your hi-fi system from damage. The mains plug fuses are just there to prevent your mains cables (ONLY) from burning out in the case of an electrical surge. The fuses already built into your individual hi-fi equipment (CD player, amp etc) are there to protect these items.

 

[timm]

Hi guys and gals,

I was at my local dealer yesterday. He had finally moved his Summits on and unboxed the Summit X 's that he had sitting in the store for several months.

He hadn't opened them because he thought they couldn't be that different.

His store is NOT optimized as most high-end stores are. Even so I was blown away by the beauty of the mid-range. I just could not get over how sweet they were.

He was using an older McI DVD for the source, playing a "black" CD of Diana Krall, The Look of Love, that I had ripped and burned a few years ago for him to hear how much better it sounded then his original CD.

The preamp was a McI C2200, which I had tried on loan, so I was familiar with it. Nice preamp, but one can do better.

And a pair of 500 watt McI mono blocks, with Audioquest interconnects and Volcano, that I had also heard in my own system.

They were not using any power conditioning and the wiring and circuits in the building are circa 1940.

I had heard Summits in his store many times, but OH MY GOD! Those Summit X's were doing things I had never heard from any of that gear.

OK. Now to the opinions, especially from anyone who has heard both speakers, hopefully with the same equipment.

What can you say about the midrange of the Prodigy compared to the Summit X????

I already know about the woofers, and the better blending. I am most interested in differences you have heard, especially with voices between the two speakers.

Thanks for the input.

Bruce

Hmm - I would have to say that based on your response - and that you are a prodigy owner ... that something in the summit x made you ...happy???

I have yet to hear them... I thought the summit had a 'different' sound than my Odysseys & Descent- and honestly, I like both. Would have to hear extended listenings or a side by side. I thought the presentation/sound was so different - I think if I did get them side by side I would immediately know within 10 seconds which I liked better. The diff I heard though did not make me feel like opening the wallet. And, the summits are so tweakable, I would have to 'learn' the speaker before I could really dial them in correctly.

 

[DrJRapp]

The Summits ( Legacy and X) have a slight edge in the midrange initially that some people like. As they run in that mellows out. Perhaps that is what you are hearing in the newly installed Xs that was absent in the well worn Summits.

 

[Bruce Weiland]

............. I'd stick with the Prodigy as it's already got legendary status. ..... I don't think you will hear an improvement changing to Summits. Your system is plenty good enough as it is. If you want to hear further gains from your system you should be working on your hi-fi mains supply. ............. According to various specialists- all fuses no matter how good they are, degrade/strangle and hold back the sound quality somewhat. Remember, only do the fuse removal tweak if you have an RCD built into the CONSUMER UNIT (electrical box) on the wall elsewhere in your home. The RCD will instantly switch off all the electrics in your home if there is an electrical surge or problem, which in turn will protect your hi-fi system from damage. The mains plug fuses are just there to prevent your mains cables (ONLY) from burning out in the case of an electrical surge. The fuses already built into your individual hi-fi equipment (CD player, amp etc) are there to protect these items.

Dan, thank you for your input. I do prefer a more forward sound of my and additionally cost differences may dictate I stay with my Prodigy, but the Summit X's at the dealer were sweet, sweet, sweet!

I will looking into an RCD, however, I am in So. Cal and there are no fuses in my mains plugs.

Bruce

 

[Bruce Weiland]

Hmm - I would have to say that based on your response - and that you are a prodigy owner ... that something in the summit x made you ...happy???

I have yet to hear them... I thought the summit had a 'different' sound than my Odysseys & Descent- and honestly, I like both. Would have to hear extended listenings or a side by side. I thought the presentation/sound was so different - I think if I did get them side by side I would immediately know within 10 seconds which I liked better. The diff I heard though did not make me feel like opening the wallet. And, the summits are so tweakable, I would have to 'learn' the speaker before I could really dial them in correctly.

Timm, yes the Summit X had my ears singin', my feet tapin', and my face smilin'. :ROFL:

I was amazed at what they sounded like, based on my familiarity with the rest of the equipment being used. There was certainly a synergy going on there. It was much more revealing than the previous Summits had been. And much, much sweeter.

Not as revealing as my current system, but much sweeter. That is why I thought using my own front end with the Summit X's might be very, very good.

Bruce

 

[Bruce Weiland]

The Summits ( Legacy and X) have a slight edge in the midrange initially that some people like. As they run in that mellows out. Perhaps that is what you are hearing in the newly installed Xs that was absent in the well worn Summits.

DrJRapp,

I am not sure how long the X's had been run in. It was not a midrange edge but a midrange sweetness. Something I had not heard with the previous Summits (Legacy).

It truly amazed me and the dealer.

Brcue

 

[Bruce Weiland]

1) Anyone heard the Prodigy and the Summit X in the same location with the same equipment upstream?

2) How does the Spire midrange compare to the Summit X?

Oh Dan. I like the looks of the Prodigy better too, but I like the size of the Summit X.

 

[marck]

Summit vs Summit X

I can certainly comment between the differences of the two Summit speakers.

At first I was rather skeptical that there would be much difference - after all it was still meant to be a Summit!

After the first audition, infact the first 5 minutes, it became very clear that these speakers were entirely different to the original. Infact I was very surprised that they called them the same name - maybe that was ML's mistake.

They are much better voiced than the original, the crossover is much more seamless, which in turn allows the bass to be much better controlled). They also disperse a much wider soundstage (although I am not sure why that is the case since the panel size is the same).

The defining moment came when my wife listened to them and was amazed by the difference (since in her words 'they look the same, so they will sound the same'!)

In terms of Prodigy vs Summit X, I can only compare Ascent I to Summit. I thought there was a massive change between the legacy speakers. The main differences are in the crossover (which you used to be able to hear), bass control and general voicing of the panels. In my opinion there is no comparison.

Hope that helps
Marc.

 

[Bruce Weiland]

I can certainly comment between the differences of the two Summit speakers.

At first I was rather skeptical that there would be much difference - after all it was still meant to be a Summit!

After the first audition, infact the first 5 minutes, it became very clear that these speakers were entirely different to the original. Infact I was very surprised that they called them the same name - maybe that was ML's mistake.

They are much better voiced than the original, the crossover is much more seamless, which in turn allows the bass to be much better controlled). They also disperse a much wider soundstage (although I am not sure why that is the case since the panel size is the same).

The defining moment came when my wife listened to them and was amazed by the difference (since in her words 'they look the same, so they will sound the same'!)

In terms of Prodigy vs Summit X, I can only compare Ascent I to Summit. I thought there was a massive change between the legacy speakers. The main differences are in the crossover (which you used to be able to hear), bass control and general voicing of the panels. In my opinion there is no comparison.

Hope that helps
Marc.

Marc,

Thanks. Yes it does. The point you bring out that most interests me is the "panel voicing".

I don't suppose you could expand on what those differences are, could you?

Bruce

 

[User211]

Here's what I thought when I heard the Summit X:

Summit X at a show

Granted, show conditions, but I also dealer demo'd the Summit with a Krell amp.

TBH - I thought the difference I heard was more down to the ARC kit driving the speaker rather than differences between the Summit X and the Summit.

There is absolutely no way I would buy the Summit X new over a 2nd hand pair of good used Summits. The price difference is just to much to be ignored. That's just me though - always after bang per buck (pound) rather than the latest thing.

I'd keep the Prodigy (why downgrade?) and grin. Just think of the scale you have over the Summits. Pretty important if you ask me. Unless they're too big for your room or WAF factor comes into it.

Just my opinion. But if you really are interested, get them in your home with your own kit before parting with the dosh. Things may sound quite a bit different then.

EDIT: just looked at your system and I have remembered it now. Space is a real constraint... might be worth considering something smaller than the Summit...

 

[marck]

Marc,

Thanks. Yes it does. The point you bring out that most interests me is the "panel voicing".

I don't suppose you could expand on what those differences are, could you?

Bruce

More realistic, more open and clean. It enables the layering and decaying of the music to be more defined. All this leads to a much better, wider soundstage.

Hope that helps!
Marc.