CLS panel repair - buzzing resonance sound.

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Hi,

I cleaned my CLS panels with shower, renewed wooden frame, and assembly everything.

20220503_223105.jpg


After cleaning everything sound better but bass section ( side of panel ) start gives resonance sound. I found problem.

20220505_142749.jpg


Loosened tape on back side of panels.

I have few question:

1) this tape should be glued to the foil and stator ??
2) somebody open CLS panel ??

I think that answer on 1) is yes but I want be shure. I want to open this panel. Front stator take out and use rubber roller to glued tape on place. Glue is still glue. When I touch it and pull, tape is moving with tool.

Some advice ??
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Ok. I check it. Tape is glued to the stator only ( but maybe I'm wrong ) and this sound is because now tape is touching mylar and give resonance.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
The wood frame looks gorgeous now!
Thanks, natural rosewood with beewax

20220503_171521.jpg


20220503_171537.jpg


more in another thread.

About tape @Brad225 wrote ( in another CLS thread )


It is attached to the Mylar panel not the sator.
Yes, I checked it one more time. and almost whole stripe was on mylar foil but in one place tape was attached to the stator ( on both CLS ) I push through the few hole tape and now stator is free ( or tape is free from stator ). Sounds still the same because tape starts vibrate.

I can only glue it or remove completly from panel.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
It is attached to the Mylar panel not the sator.
One more time I change my opinion :)

I took photo:

Side with farting bass

20220505_193828.jpg


side with normal bass

20220505_193806.jpg


it's look like tape is on the stator, not on foil.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
I have plan :)

I put the vacuum cleaner on the stator in the place of the tape and the tape was back in place. Unfortunately, when I move the vacuum cleaner away, the tape hangs between the film and the stator.

I bought contact glue, a thin brush and I want to aplly glue by brush on tape and use vacuum cleaner to press the tape against the panel. After 5 secound it should be glued.

Good plan ?? :)
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
I have plan :)

I put the vacuum cleaner on the stator in the place of the tape and the tape was back in place. Unfortunately, when I move the vacuum cleaner away, the tape hangs between the film and the stator.

I bought contact glue, a thin brush and I want to aplly glue by brush on tape and use vacuum cleaner to press the tape against the panel. After 5 secound it should be glued.

Good plan ?? :)
Might just work to stop that sound, but it's just a band-aid. Should sound better! If you get any glue on the mylar then you'll screw it up and maybe make the sound worse, so take care.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Ok

Here is the same buzzing, resonance sound that I hear with louder music and bass. Here when I tapping by hand.


Here after repair. I put glue hole by hole and use underpressure.


If you want I can take photos when I reapiring second.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
With crossed fingers I conneted CLS to Krell and checked with music:

Buzzing bass before repair.


Clear bass from repaired one.


:rolleyes:

It's alive !!!!

Time to spend another 3 hours with second CLS.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
Something is still rattling around. It almost looks like the stator is rattling against the frame. Is the foam loose, or whatever the material is that goes between the wood frame and the metal stator?
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Something is still rattling around.
No, It's from video. I recorded it with CLS few inches from metal furniture and wall. No buzzing and resonance from CLS, clear sounds... maybe it's from music. Two feet - "Had some drinks" , such sound registers. Sounds the same on the Infinity Kappa 8 and the Infinity RS2.5.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Ok. I glued tape on second CLS. Start play and magic is back. Fully, clear sound from my ML. Now, without this rezonance I first time can listen fully how big is difference bettwen dirt and cleaned panels.

I can't belive how this shower changed all sounds. Now sounds from CLS are open with air, sound sounds to the last note. The stage... is not like in other speakers in one places, big but still the same. Here stage dance with music. It's amazing.

Here what I done:

I took contact glue in gel and thin brush
20220506_112809.jpg


I applied glue though the holes by brush
20220506_200539.jpg

You can see glued tape over brush and loosened under brush.

Contact glue need only few second to catch materials and I use vaccum cleaner to pull tape to stator.
20220506_184038.jpg

Over pipe is fully glued tape.

After work CLS looks good
20220506_175513.jpg

I took this photo with light on this tape to catch it. Normaly is almost invisible like left one.

My job is finished. Bravo me :)
 

Don Camillo

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
45
Reaction score
4
Location
Europe
Yeah bravo you! (y):D

Thats great to find a working solution that doesnt cost a lot...!

It makes me want to try the showering thing.
Did you also got more from 40 to 500 hz? Or only more bright in high frequencies?

Mine are already (too much!) bright...
I have some sub low, but until 500hz its really thin sounding.

I thought when showering panels you would have to seperate the 2 stator panels and with foil on 1 stator wash it...
But you wash them with panels stay together right?

So I cannot push the broken tape to the stator ( so it doesnt shorten or spark the sound...

Then perhaps I should use a little hook shaped like this "L" and pull the detoriated tape to the stator without touching the foil... and vaccuum meanwhile... Hmmm....
 

Don Camillo

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
45
Reaction score
4
Location
Europe
I just saw this on youtube....

Showering ML panels

So its like this? And probably rins off with osmose water right?

I believe I read that Brad had a threat about showering panels...
I will check it out tomorrow...
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
I thought when showering panels you would have to seperate the 2 stator panels and with foil on 1 stator wash it...
But you wash them with panels stay together right?
Yes, I showered it oi one piece

20220501_014001.jpg


Now I know that I should shower only front side, or put tape outside rear panel to save tape on place.

You firs should remove old tape with vacum and put on other packing tape outside rear panel... or clean only front side, but my rear was the same dirt like front.

Did you also got more from 40 to 500 hz? Or only more bright in high frequencies?
Yes, I have more everething. Bass too. Maybe you have bright becouse of broken tape, first it block free move on bass section, second maybe it changes the electric field at this point. Then I play bass my foil move realy hard to front and back of panels.
 

Martynka

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
13
Location
Poland
Last video. If your CLS give buzzing, resonance sounds when play bass, check tuning tape


a few inches of loose tape at the bottom or top is enough for the entire panel to resonate. You can check it in the middle too.
 

Jazzman53

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
81
Reaction score
38
Location
Savannah, GA
I build wire stator ESL's exclusively now, but my first ESL's were built with perf-metal stators and I had the same problem with diaphragm spacers locally separating from the stators. I used foam tape spacers rather than hard spacers and one of the methods I used to repair separations was stitching the stators to the spacer strip. This was done using a sewing needle and a flat (untwisted) thread that I used to tie flies for fly fishing. I would insert the needle thru a stator hole, thru the spacer and opposite stator hole, then back thru to the back stator and tie it off. It worked really well and wasn't really visually noticeable unless you got close to look.


Good job on your speakers... the frames are gorgeous!
 

Brandon Hartwick

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Messages
66
Reaction score
39
That's a good idea putting contact cement through the holes, it turned out better than I expected.

Nice work
 
Top