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CLS IIz or Vista?

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kirkawall

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Hi all,

I posted a few days ago about a possible CLS IIz purchase and got all kinds of good advice. I have demo'ing these speakers for nearly a week now and am very impressed with their speed, transparency, scale and general lack of "listener fatigue." I am aware of a lack of deep bass, though I find the bass that they do produce to be VERY fast articulate. Here's the rub: I also have the chance to pick up a pair of Vistas, which would be about 2000.00 more than these CLS IIs. They do have, however, all the new technology that ML is now offering, a much better bass response, and they might suit my room a little better (12x24 with cathedral ceilings). I am also aware that that the WAF of the CLS IIs is low, low, low. I guess I'm wondering, since I'm unable to hear the Vistas in my home, whether the CLS IIzs are obselete/ a dead end and if I'd be better off going for the more up-to-date tech. On the other hand, good as the Vistas sound, I think I prefer the overall presentation of the CLS -- they seem more coherent and more MUSICAL somehow. Wondering if any CLS or Vista oweners might be able to chime in here...

thanks for looking and all best,


k
 

Kruppy

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kirkawall said:
Hi all,

I think I prefer the overall presentation of the CLS -- they seem more coherent and more MUSICAL somehow.
Looks like your ears have made the choice already.
 

DTB300

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kirkawall said:
I am also aware that that the WAF of the CLS IIs is low, low, low. I guess I'm wondering, since I'm unable to hear the Vistas in my home, whether the CLS IIzs are obselete/ a dead end and if I'd be better off going for the more up-to-date tech. On the other hand, good as the Vistas sound, I think I prefer the overall presentation of the CLS -- they seem more coherent and more MUSICAL somehow.
You can still get new Panels for the CLS speakers...and if the bass, in the long run is just not enough, add a sub.

Dan
 

kirkawall

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DTB300 said:
You can still get new Panels for the CLS speakers...and if the bass, in the long run is just not enough, add a sub.

Dan
Thanks for your replies -- do you think there is a noticable performance gap between the "new technology" Vista/Vantage ESL panels and a CLS IIz with brand new panels? This dealer is doing his best to convince me of the benefits of ClearSpar, Microperf etc. I'd like to get it right I guess, since it's a considerable investment on my part.

thanks again and apologies for the daftness of the question...

k
 

amey01

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kirkawall said:
Thanks for your replies -- do you think there is a noticable performance gap between the "new technology" Vista/Vantage ESL panels and a CLS IIz with brand new panels? This dealer is doing his best to convince me of the benefits of ClearSpar, Microperf etc. I'd like to get it right I guess, since it's a considerable investment on my part.

thanks again and apologies for the daftness of the question...

k
If your ears have chosen the CLS, I'd go with the CLS. The dealer can talk all he wants about technology and acronyms, but if it dosen't translate into a better sound for you then what is the point?
 

jjqiv

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DTB300 said:
You can still get new Panels for the CLS speakers...and if the bass, in the long run is just not enough, add a sub.

Dan
And a cross-over.
 

Jeff Zaret

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I have heard the Summits and I would not trade my CLSiiZ's for the price difference. The Vantage and the Vista are also great speakers but I think from what you have stated, you are leaning towards the CLS. If bass is an issue, get a sub. I have the Depth with my CLSiiZ's and I do not want for any more bass at all.

Yes, the WAF would be higher with the Vistas but I think from what you said and what you did not say the CLS is more pleasing to your ears. I replaced my original panels last year. Jim Power, the Service Manager for ML, told me they always keep at least 2 pairs of replacement panels for the CLS on the shelf.

Jeff :cool:
 

Peter Hogan

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Hi,
In all the listening that I've done with the various ML models, the one generalization that holds true is the bigger the panel, the better the sound. The small panelled speakers may sound good, but one with a bigger panel simply sounds better. The CLS's have the largest panel of all.

If you need more bass, add woofer(s) and/or a sub. I have two 12" woofers that double as stands for my CLS's, and an 18" Velodyne for the really low stuff. I use an external crossover for mine, so I can set the crossover point and levels independantly, for the panels and woofers. I have the crossover point @ 140Hz presently (I'm still playing with that).

I set the crossover point in the pre/pro to 50Hz for the fronts. That puts everything above 140 to the CLS's, 140 to 50Hz to the 12" subs, and 50Hz on down gets redirected to the Velodyne (I've measured it's -3db point at 12Hz in the room).

Peter
 

DTB300

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jjqiv said:
And a cross-over.
If not already built into the sub you purchase, and/or it is not a good cross-over. But then again there are some who like to run the CLS full range with the sub added in. So many possibilities to explore as there is not one correct solution..

Dan
 

nirvanaseeker

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about the x-over

As complex as x-overs can get, keep in mind that something as simple as a blocking cap at the input of the amp driving the CLS's might be a best solution at least for the CLS part, and somewhat easy to impliment too. Relieving some of the bass response from stats is sometimes known to produce a better midrange if done correctly. I have not done that on my own CLS's so I cannot speak with absolute authority but is the route I'd take when it comes to subwoofer time.
 

IWalker

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If you're actually asking this...then I guess WAF is only a secondary consideration. If this were my decision, I'd HAVE to get the vistas! If you really do have the choice, I think the CLS sounds like a good way to go. If you don't, the Vistas are still mighty nice :)
 

kirkawall

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Hi all,

Thanks very much for all your help. I've booked a session with Vistas and the Vantages today and will decide tomorrow. Whatever the option I have become an ML convert!

best,


k
 

JonFo

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kirkawall said:
Hi all,

Thanks very much for all your help. I've booked a session with Vistas and the Vantages today and will decide tomorrow. Whatever the option I have become an ML convert!

best,


k
Great, I hope you enjoy the experience, they are all very nice speakers.

We'll show you the 'secret' ML Club handshake once you get a pair of ML's ;)
 

Reverb

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JonFo said:
We'll show you the 'secret' ML Club handshake once you get a pair of ML's ;)
Hay, how come nobody showed me the secrete handshake? All I got was the secrete decoder ring and Pez dispenser. :p
 

kirkawall

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Hi,

Again, thanks all for advice/insights. I spent a few hours auditioning the Vantage at my local dealer (Vista hadn't arrived yet) and it is an exceptional speaker for a large(ish) room. Wonderful clear highs and a clean tuneful bass -- it didn't work well in my small room, however. I found it hard to tune the bass in such a way as to allow it to "keep up" with the rest of the frequency range though I suppose careful room tuning would help. For 2 1/2 times the price I did not feel it offered a significant adVantage over the CLS IIz in my room and for my purposes, however. Despite the low WAF and their lack of low bass, I find the CLS to have very fast and articulate bass and may well pick up a sub at some point. I did make the mistake of pluggin in my Quad dynamic speakers -- which are excellent -- and realized that having tried ESLs I fear I can never go back...

thanks and best,


k
 
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