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Call me crazy but they (magic dots) work!

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Gordon Gray

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:eek:

Well folks,

I tried the Marigo dots to "tune" my two 6' by 8' windows, which is the "back wall" to my living room / listening area and they actually had an audible, positive impact.

My Summits are about 5' (to the panel) from the back wall. Other equipment includes a Classe Audio CA150 amp, a CJ Premier 18 LS preamp, a Theta Miles CD player, a Michael Green clamp rack, and Mapleshade interconnects and speaker wire.

To make sure there was something to be heard, I had a non-audiophile type friend with me to do the before / after test. I told him nothing regarding what these dots might do. Used high quality male / female vocalist type CD's as the reference. Had my friend listen to 3 selections (approx. 2 minutes per selection) and then I repeated the same, with different material that I'm familiar with, myself. We then installed the dots (2 - 60mm dots per window corner / 16 total) and listened again.

My friend said that he thought the volume should be backed off by 1 to 2 DB with the dots in place. He also noticed the higher frequencies having more depth with additional clarity.

My initial gut, confirmed after more listening, is that the entire presentation had more uniform "punch" that was non frequency dependant. Better soundstaging, dimensionality, and overall clarity. And it was not subtle after listening to a variety of material. Same difference with rock, classical and jazz.

Don't know what to say other than I'm keeping them. Given the "voodo" nature of the puppies, they were shipped to me with a money back guarantee thanks to John at the Cable Company. The apparent theory is that they "retune" the resonant frequency of the glass. Beats me but I'm totally convinced of their efficacy.

Moral of the story. If your looking for room treatment but don't want to sacrifice room aesthetics, you should try these out.

GG

PS: Bottom line is that the overall musical presentation is much more engaging.
 
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jtwrace

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Magic Dots

Do you have a website for the dots? I am really interested? Manufacturer name?

Thanks
 

tonyc

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Gordon is absolutely correct in his assertion that these things change the sound in amazing ways. Years ago my dealer treated my Sonic Frontiers SFD2 DAC. The increase in soundstage depth and height was shocking. I still have not heard a more palpable image from any DAC.
 

tonepub

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though not as aesthetically pleasing, you can also try a few strategically placed globs of plumbers putty on glass surfaces.

While it won't take care of that giant reflective surface (nor will the dots), the putty and the dots do absorb some of the ringing that's going on with the glass...

Everything you can do helps.

One more thing that might be handy where windows are a problem and WAF is a consideration is some Sonex classic glued to a piece of Gatorfoam that is the size of your window.

You can tuck em out of the way when not using them and pull them out for critical listening sessions. The light weight of the Sonex and Gatorfoam won't harm any of your window frames or damage any blinds you might have.
 

amey01

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Gordon is absolutely correct in his assertion that these things change the sound in amazing ways. Years ago my dealer treated my Sonic Frontiers SFD2 DAC. The increase in soundstage depth and height was shocking. I still have not heard a more palpable image from any DAC.
How do you treat a DAC?
 

Gordon Gray

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Hi guys,

I understand the skepticism. I also understand what I heard and continue to hear.

With all due respect Jeff, absent of hearing the before and after, you (or anyone else for that matter) cannot make an informed judgement about their sonic impacts.

Given your occupation, you really should know better.

GG
 

MiTT

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Actually Gordon if you re-read what Jeff posted he was confirming the effectiveness of such treatment and offering some additional alternatives. I don't think he doubted their effectiveness at all.

I have not used them myself (yet), but have listened to a demonstration of their effectiveness at RMAF, and they have been present in many, many rooms over the years.
 

Gordon Gray

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HI Tim,

Not trying to criticize Jeff's position on this product. He has been a great asset to this forum offering all of us insight on gear and other things audio that we would otherwise not know.

I read his comments from a different perspective, which is if one has not tried / listened to a particular product or tweek in their own system ( I assume Jeff has not and if he has, I apologize), one cannot claim that they don't work (addressing the sonic / reflective issues related to a large piece of glass behind the speakers) nor, as others have posted, are crazy expensive, or worse, think it's appropriate to post sarcastic remarks without any foundation for such remarks.

We all know how subjective this wonderful hobby is and price / point value for anything is always a personal choice based on a personal perspective.

I have read reviews about various "tweek" products and have no idea how they work and influence the sound in a positive manner.

One example that stands out in my mind is the Shatki product that looks somewhat like a coat rack and go for about $1K for a pair.

Numerous folks, including HP of TAS, have them in their system and claim audible / positive results.

Best regards,

GG
 
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User211

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Hi Gordon,

Sorry - my remark was just a bit of fun, not to be taken too seriously. A little light heartedness doesn't hurt sometimes. Poeple can get too serious about this audio stuff, after all.

It seems to me to be totally reasonable that controlling glass resonance will have an audible effect. I am only glad you have found it to be the case to the positive.

The only question I would ask is this: looking at the dots, do they look difficult to manufacture and look to be of good quality i.e. do they look like $695 worth?

Regards,

Justin
 

C.A.P

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Hi Gordon,



It seems to me to be totally reasonable that controlling glass resonance will have an audible effect.
Justin
That is as true as it gets ! If they are helping tame the glass reflections and such then its worth every penny as in my experience, Glass is a tough one to break ! (pun intended) !
 

hotroady

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That is as true as it gets ! If they are helping tame the glass reflections and such then its worth every penny as in my experience, Glass is a tough one to break ! (pun intended) !
Yeah, the problem is you usually find stuff like this, is made of some readily available bulk material. What's it made from ? Most likely easy to duplicate.
 

Gordon Gray

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Hi folks,

Thanks for the interest and responses.

Yes Justin, you are correct about not having a sense of humor. I probably did take some remarks too seriously. Apologies to all for my defensiveness.

As for the questions.

The tuning dots consist of various layers of differing materials. Unknown as to what the materials are, only Ron knows. They are about 2" in diameter and 1/4" thick. Ron supplied a placement diagram for me when he shipped the product.

No, they don't look like anything that would be worth the asking price. Think of felt pads that you would buy at the hardware store and install on the bottom of furniture feet to avoid damaging a wood floor finish.

The before and after, as I said before, was quite audible and quite positive. They, to my ear, effectively tamed and attenuated the brightness and reflectivity associated with hard surfaces allowing one to hear a cleaner, more dimensional, better focused musical presentation. Additional mid range body, the ability to distinguish the minute sounds emanating from say a cymbal, and being able to hear the sonic character / size of the recording venues are other tangible benefits. I assume this is similar to other more traditional room treatment devices.

I am very sensitive to the aesthetics of my smallish living room and happen to have quite a nice view of the Teton Range out my front window. I was very reluctant to install anything that would compromise this view or the aesthetics thereof.

Would other more traditional devices perform better in addressing the glass reflectivity issue? Probably.

Am I happy with the way the system sounds? Absolutely. It definitely is not on the subdued side of the equation but given the amount of music I listen to on average, which is probably 16 hours / week, I don't experience any listening fatigue caused by an overly bright sonic signature. In fact, I find the overall signature to have the correct balance of inner detail while still remaining musical.

FWIW, our Club member Rich heard the system last year. I had warned him, prior to auditioning my system, that it may sound bright and too lively. Rich's only suggestion, which I later implemented, was to install some acoustic dampers between the Summit spikes and the wood floor to attenuate the low end "migration" transmitted from the Summits into the wood floor. This definitely helped clean up the overall solidity and foundation of the presentation.

If anyone wishes to try this or any of the other products that Marigo sells, I'm confident that Ron will allow for an in home / money back guarantee audition. He's a great guy who understands the needs of folks like us.

Could be worth a try. Of course, YMMV.

Gordon
 

tonepub

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Hi guys,

I understand the skepticism. I also understand what I heard and continue to hear.

With all due respect Jeff, absent of hearing the before and after, you (or anyone else for that matter) cannot make an informed judgement about their sonic impacts.

Given your occupation, you really should know better.

GG
I haven't made a judgement based on something I haven't heard. I've tried the dots. What the dots do (just like a glob of plumbers putty or something similar) is damp some of the vibration on the glass pane that is prone to ringing at certain frequencies. Depending on the rest of your room, (and your hearing) that may make a more pronounced difference in your overall sound.

Putting maringo dots on a glass window or any other large, flat, shiny surface is not going to totally negate the reflectiveness of said object. That's basic acoustics.

You can also put one or two Symposium Fat Pads on some pieces of gear and hear a little bit more clarity in the presentation. Same thing, vibration control. Some gear responds better to it than others.

What I was trying to point out was that one could investigate this effect in their own system without spending 650 on a set of maringo dots. They are definitely a more elegant solution aesthetically.

For what it's worth, I've shown the dots to a friend a long time ago to a chemical engineer that works for Freudenberg NOK, one of the worlds largest suppliers of synthetic materials for the automotive and apparel industries. He took them in to work one day, did some tests and said they are pretty much different sorbothane compounds that they probably buy in a big roll from them or one of the other suppliers for about 6 bucks a square foot.

So before you assume, I haven't done my homework, I have. My good buddy always gets me scraps of this stuff and I've used it to good effect. If you are happy with the dots, they really do work.

I was merely trying to provide an alternate solution for those who would like to investigate further without plunking down $650. You will still get a ton more improvement by covering those windows, which it sounds like is not practical in your application.

I was also trying to point out that in a fairly large quantity, a few thousand dollars worth of little tuning dots will not make up for room anomalies in the same way that basic acoustic treatments will.
 

MiTT

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Hey Gordon,

can you explain what these do? I'm a little confused.
Hey Tom, I've posted here about resonance control a number of times, and the point of these is really no different. The point of all resonance control is to either a.)change the resonant frequency to a non-audible range or b.) reduce the amplitude of the resonant frequency or c.)both. If in the process you also manage to couple the resonance control devices to an object of a different mass (also known as Mechanical Grounding), as well as to (via the devices geometry) convert it into a waveguide, it may be possible to drain the spurious energy away and disperse it as heat - which is why cones are such effective isolation devices.

The Maringo dots, when placed on a reflective planar surface, serve to both alter the resonant frequency and dampen it slightly. Their composition being made up of dissimilar materials is intended to be effective in multiple frequency ranges. I won't offer an opinion as to their cost, but I have heard them very effectively employed.

Resonance control in general is probably one of the most effective "tweaks" we can utilize in our systems. I'm a firm believer, and I know Gordon is as well as we both use a number of Black Diamond Racing products. Roberto actually has some great ideas on resonance control as well.

OH BOY, here it comes. I hope it doesn't get me BANNED...

Tom, use the search feature, it's your friend!
:ROFL::devil::D
 
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