B100

[bthrb4ubennett]

I have been in this hobby for a long time and never really considered owning a “high end” system but the bug bit me. I travelled a lot to audition and have gone to most of the north eastern shows. I have tried every piece of gear at the local shop and mix matched about everything they would let me. I know what I wanted in a system so I used Some saved up money to buy a classe delta stereo amplifier and have been paying off the matching preamp over the past two years. I did have an esoteric k07xs cd player that I got bored of and sold to help fund the preamp. I mention all of this to give some insight as to where I sit in this hobby. Well having finally paid off my preamp I decided to buy some cheaper speakers to hold me over for the next couple years till I could afford some high end speaker.ma. When I saw Andrew Robinsons review of the motion xt series, I told myself not to but I did simply because of the driver implementation. I always preferred a metal dome tweeter or even ribbon for some music over soft dome but found the timbre and speed coherence was generally better with soft dome with paper drivers which I prefer for midrange. I have found that AMT can potentially have better timbre than soft dome while still allowing good timbre matching of mid drivers. Yes the motion xt seemed very intriguing. Now that the long story is over, the short story is, I really don’t like these speakers. First off, the binding posts snapped on me when I tried pulling the cables out. They were semi tight bananas but nothing that seemed overly forceful. I am a carpenter and understand to pull straight and not at an angle. Knowing these simple things makes life as a carpenter easier. Secondly, the sound. Admittedly they did calm down after burn in. Before burn in they had no control. After burn in, they were somewhat bearable. These are extremely shouty and forward tweeters like a klipsch horn. The off axis dispersion is not good. All of the imaging is done between the speakers and none to the side. Any instruments that stay on one side, make the tweeter extremely localized and abnormal. Tonally, they sound like a studio monitor. Like there is no tuning. Maybe the most boring speaker I have ever encountered. There is absolutely zero 3 dimensionality like Andrew said. They are a wall of sound coming from a black background and no texture in the midrange. There’s also hardly any meat in the midrange except for the little bit of texture the tweeter brings into the upper midrange. There is solidity to the textures of sounds coming from tweeter but generally every dome tweeter does so nothing special. They seem fast but they get overwhelmed easily. I could only stand listening to gentle songs. Dynamics are stale with no elasticity to then what so ever. I really don’t understand what is going on here. This is a Martin Logan lovers thread so I’m expecting the hate. Yes I know they are only $1600 speakers but I was expecting something special. Instead I get a speaker that is tied for first on my most hated speakers ever. Tied with the Alta Alec speaker. No I am not a Martin Logan hater. My best audio friend has old CLS and Sequel. I still love going over and listening to his CLS. I have helped him set his room up with treatment for them. I use to want the montis more than any other speaker. I haven’t heard a ML electrostatic panel in a while however. In fact, while the driver implementation, did intrigue me, I really wanted to use these to start a YouTube review channel. I figured these were the hottest new speakers out and there would be no better speaker than these to get myself some coverage. I was going to sell and then buy another comparably priced bookshelf to review next. But I can’t even do a review on these because I would get shunned from reviewing

 

[Tosh]

Once artificial intelligence really kicks in, all forum posts will look like this.

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

Perhaps your power amp does not match with bookshelves.

This would result in poor sonics even though both Amplifier and loudspeaker are great.

 

[bthrb4ubennett]

Perhaps your power amp does not match with bookshelves.

This would result in poor sonics even though both Amplifier and loudspeaker are great.

What lol. My amp is just clean high capacitance power. It also uses similar technology to mcintosh where the amplifier matches the impedance of the speaker.l by keeping a constant load on it. Also I’ve had the amp for two year now and have powered quite a few bookshelf’s and never had an issue.

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

What lol. My amp is just clean high capacitance power. It also uses similar technology to mcintosh where the amplifier matches the impedance of the speaker.l by keeping a constant load on it. Also I’ve had the amp for two year now and have powered quite a few bookshelf’s and never had an issue.

Your amplifier is too powerful for this bookshelf.

Benchmark AHB2 power amp would really make loudspeakers sing.

I used to listen to Motion 15. My 70 watt denon used to make them sing better than 225 watt Anthem MCA 225.

With Anthem STR Motion 15 used to sound not nice at all.

You have a great Classe amp. Partner with matching loudspeaker.

 

[bthrb4ubennett]

Your amplifier is too powerful for this bookshelf.

Benchmark AHB2 power amp would really make loudspeakers sing.

I used to listen to Motion 15. My 70 watt denon used to make them sing better than 225 watt Anthem MCA 225.

With Anthem STR Motion 15 used to sound not nice at all.

You have a great Classe amp.

“Need power to make them sing” is a very very common statement made in this hobby. Too much power is absolutely not a really thing. Is the speaker able to do what I’m asking it to do? Nope. Is that because it’s a bookshelf? No. It’s because it’s not as high end as I was told it was.
Alternatively, my preamp REALLY asks the amp to create a very large an encompassing dynamic soundscape. I have acknowledged this and have used my denon home theater receiver as the pre and the sound becomes even more frustratingly lesser quality.

 

[Robert D]

“Need power to make them sing” is a very very common statement made in this hobby. Too much power is absolutely not a really thing. Is the speaker able to do what I’m asking it to do? Nope. Is that because it’s a bookshelf? No. It’s because it’s not as high end as I was told it was.
Alternatively, my preamp REALLY asks the amp to create a very large an encompassing dynamic soundscape. I have acknowledged this and have used my denon home theater receiver as the pre and the sound becomes even more frustratingly lesser quality.

How do they sound using just the Denon receiver? Have you tried that? That will probably be the best match.

 

[bthrb4ubennett]

How do they sound using just the Denon receiver? Have you tried that? That will probably be the best match.

I’m not interested in that at all. A $1600 bookshelf should sound good with a decent hifi rig. I bought them for my two channel not my home theater.

 

[Robert D]

I’m not interested in that at all. A $1600 bookshelf should sound good with a decent hifi rig. I bought them for my two channel not my home theater.

Well, if you're truly interested in testing them fully then you'd try it out and see if they sound better or worse. Regardless, it looks like you made a mistake in buying the speakers.

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

“Need power to make them sing” is a very very common statement made in this hobby. Too much power is absolutely not a really thing. Is the speaker able to do what I’m asking it to do? Nope. Is that because it’s a bookshelf? No. It’s because it’s not as high end as I was told it was.
Alternatively, my preamp REALLY asks the amp to create a very large an encompassing dynamic soundscape. I have acknowledged this and have used my denon home theater receiver as the pre and the sound becomes even more frustratingly lesser quality.

“There is no such thing like too much power.”

This statement is accurate in the context of electrostatic panel driven by amplifier designed for home listening.

“Better to have more power than less power.”

This statement is accurate in the context of not increase volume beyond maximum power handling capacity of loudspeaker.

A low wattage amp paired with impedance mismatched power hungry speakers when overdriven to create satisfactory sound level will produce distortion. This distortion may damage loudspeaker driver especially tweeter.

Conclusion:

First let your ears be the judge to decide optimal matching.

When not possible then specification for maximum power delivered by a amplifier should match or be slightly less than loudspeaker maximum power handling.

 

[bthrb4ubennett]

“There is no such thing like too much power.”

This statement is accurate in the context of electrostatic panel driven by amplifier designed for home listening.

“Better to have more power than less power.”

This statement is accurate in the context of not increase volume beyond maximum power handling capacity of loudspeaker.

A low wattage amp paired with impedance mismatched power hungry speakers when overdriven to create satisfactory sound level will produce distortion. This distortion may damage loudspeaker driver especially tweeter.

Conclusion:

First let your ears be the judge to decide optimal matching.

When not possible then specification for maximum power delivered by an amplifier should match or be slightly less than loudspeaker maximum power handling.

Was Robert D saying that I was driving the speakers into distortion levels? If so, that would have been much easier to say. I never assumed that’s what he was saying simply because I never said I was getting distortion. Even though I actually was and only when driving to 85db. 85db should not be too loud for a speaker like this.

Either way, I think I’m screwed. I haven’t contacted audio advice ti see if I can return them. I think I’m going ti send these into Danny at GR research and have him see if he can do upgrades to them. Have a feeling there’s a lot of “cheese” in there and hopefully he can fix the off axis dispersion or lack of.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

If you really dislike them so much I highly doubt sending them to GR Research is going to do much other than cost you more money. Just swapping Xover components isn't going to make a night and day difference anyway, if any difference at all.

Sell them, I'm sure someone will pick them up in short order.

 

[Leporello]

Once artificial intelligence really kicks in, all forum posts will look like this.

No, AI can already do organized paragraphs.

 

[Tosh]

I have teased out some meaning from it and would like to contribute constructively. On my ML Motion10 tiny towers I've had to stuff the port closed as the bass is just too mushy, so perhaps that's going on here too? When I ran them through an active high pass at 90Hz they got better, and better still at 180Hz....

Can you stuff the port on the B100, or cut bass some other way on these?

 

[bthrb4ubennett]

No, AI can already do organized paragraphs.

Was a quick write up. I’ll be sure to be more comprehensive when I publish my findings elsewhere. Thanks for the fire.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

Have you tried messing with placement at all? Imaging tends to shift around and change as you move the speakers.

When I brought home my electrostatics and played some tunes for the first time I was actually completely underwhelmed. I felt the bass was mushy and it really just didn't blend well with the panel, I didn't get what all the fuss over electrostatics was about. Fast forward 6 months and after a bunch of internal changes and placement trial and error I totally get what the fuss is all about .

Sound is very subjective, just because a speaker gets great reviews doesn't mean you'll love it. There's nothing wrong with not liking something just because other people do, I hate all kinds of stuff people rave about.

 

[bthrb4ubennett]

No, AI can already do organized paragraphs.

Was a quick write up. I’ll be sure to be more comprehensive when I publish my findings elsewhere.

Have you tried messing with placement at all? Imaging tends to shift around and change as you move the speakers.

When I brought home my electrostatics and played some tunes for the first time I was actually completely underwhelmed. I felt the bass was mushy and it really just didn't blend well with the panel, I didn't get what all the fuss over electrostatics was about. Fast forward 6 months and after a bunch of internal changes and placement trial and error I totally get what the fuss is all about .

Sound is very subjective, just because a speaker gets great reviews doesn't mean you'll love it. There's nothing wrong with not liking something just because other people do, I hate all kinds of stuff people rave about.

I have a lot of experience with speaker placement and treatment. I have both absorption and reflection panels that are mobile. My room is a big Victorian style room where one side is a large arch way. I had to build the mobile panels so I could mirror the left side timing and decay of reflections which I have optimized using rew.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

I have a lot of experience with speaker placement and treatment. I have both absorption and reflection panels that are mobile. My room is a big Victorian style room where one side is a large arch way. I had to build the mobile panels so I could mirror the left side timing and decay of reflections which I have optimized using rew.

Sounds like you might be happier with something else?

Maybe post some photos of your layout and some of the more knowledgeable members can help your situation. Would a different style of speaker maybe be a better fit for your space? How can we help you?

I think you're honestly the first one here to post any real experiences with the new Motion XT speakers so it's actually interesting to hear what other people think about them.

 

[ttocs]

My room is a big Victorian style room where one side is a large arch way.

How many cubic feet is the room?

The surrounds and rears in my 6000 cubic foot room are ML IW in-wall speakers which have the same size woofer as yours made with a different material, and much smaller FMT. The bass response is a few Hz lower but I find the need to set the subwoofer crossover pretty high at 100Hz.

 

[Robert D]

Those speakers are new, and under warranty. I would contact Martin Logan about that and get it repaired. I just take my hardware into the dealer here and they either fix it or send it back to Martin Logan for me.

I don't know if it's possible, but if you end up sending them back to Martin Logan, you might be able to exchange them toward a different model speaker. I had a brand new Marantz receiver that was broken out of the box and I decided to trade up to one level higher because I was paranoid about that model. It was no problem for me to do so. Not sure how long you've owned these new speakers.