Huntindawg1962
Member
Let me preface this that my following won't be an endorsement of any system as opposed to really being about the experience. As you can see in my signature, my electronics is now TBD as opposed to stating anything. That is because of the process I went through and I am just sharing - mostly for others that may google and find this thread.
I started out with a Denon 4520CI. That system left me wanting more - suspect it was because of the integrated amps so really not as powerful as advertised. So I did some looking around and decided to try an eMotiva XPR-5 amp - 400watts per channel and just use the Denon for the pre. I was considering the emotiva new pre pro that is coming out but an experience I had with their present pre and comments from on this board have led me to believe that this was not going to be the path.
The Denon and emotiva sounded pretty good. Now, I have always liked Mcintosh gear and 30 years ago it was a no brainer for being great stuff to me, but also priced in a place that also made it a no-go for me back then. Fast forward to today where I am building a "my dream system" and last thing I wanted was to be looking over my shoulder wondering if I should have pulled the trigger on the mac or not ?? I am in the 30 day window on these pcs so I can still change my mind. And, was my ML set up being under-served by the Denon/eMotiva?
When I do online research at the usual forums and even talking to sales people (that should know), I get really mixed signals. Ok, I know why Mc was really good back then, why is it still so today compared to others? So what if it is made in NY? What does that do to IMPROVE it from something made in China or anywhere else? Similar ownership and some really identical items with Denon and Marantz make me wonder? I am skeptical of "fan-boy" remarks as they are everywhere for Mc, Apple, Harley, and a bunch of brands. Could make a pile of poo and the fan-boys would love it. I don't want to bow to my knees just because someone said "its a Mcintosh" - WHY will it be better?
Then on the audio BB's you hear people describing it all with terms like "sparkle" (is that not a description of a visual item, not audible?) - wider sound stage, roll off, muddle, etc. "The Mcintosh will sound better" as a description alone tells us nothing.
Fortunately, I have a local Mc dealer that let me "buy" his demo units for a day to audition them side-by-side in my house. Fair enough. Its a lot of money for them to risk and the promise was full refund on return of the items. Agreed. System is an mx121/8207 amp
So I brought the stuff home and set up two systems side by side. Hooked them into the Theos/descent/motions and thought I noticed some better sound early on. But was that just me looking for the Mc to be better at 3X the cost? So I had my wife and a buddy sit in. My hardware is not in the same room as the speakers so a blind audition was easy - I let them be the blind judge all the while knowing I was hearing differences in clarity, high end clarity, muddled bass, sound stage size, etc (haha, these terms all mean something now). I played the same song from exactly the same source each iteration on the test. 2-channel only music for the first part.
Interestingly, even one time I told them I changed preamp/amps (although they did not know from which to which), yet i really did not make the change. At first I thought that they were going to pick one as the better one - but both agreed that there "seemed to be no real difference" (which shocked me that the were honest about it as there really was none - human nature would lead to pick something) - Then we proceeded with the tests playing a variety of music styles, vocals and instrumentals, jazz, rock, etc. Incredibly, every time they picked the Mc over the set up that I had. In the end they were also impressed when I told them that they got the fact I did not change the amps the first time, and that they picked the Mc each time after.
So how would this test go with Classe system, Rotel, or any other number of options that are not 10K for a pre pro or above? I don't know? But I now can tell WHAT people mean when they say "it just will sound better" I really am posting this to just share my experience and more so for the other people like me that go out there reading this stuff and trying to make heads or tails of it all when picking. And to say that I now get it. I actually like the cost of the other option but when I hear the crisp and clean female vocals on the one system to a bit of unnatural rasp on the same with the other, I get what people are saying now. Had I never done the side by side I would likely had been content with the lower dollar option.
So I have no idea what I am doing now - serve the ego and the ears and just do it on the 121/8207 - or keep hunting? The 30 day window is ticking fast so when the music stops I have to sit. Will update the signature when I actually
I started out with a Denon 4520CI. That system left me wanting more - suspect it was because of the integrated amps so really not as powerful as advertised. So I did some looking around and decided to try an eMotiva XPR-5 amp - 400watts per channel and just use the Denon for the pre. I was considering the emotiva new pre pro that is coming out but an experience I had with their present pre and comments from on this board have led me to believe that this was not going to be the path.
The Denon and emotiva sounded pretty good. Now, I have always liked Mcintosh gear and 30 years ago it was a no brainer for being great stuff to me, but also priced in a place that also made it a no-go for me back then. Fast forward to today where I am building a "my dream system" and last thing I wanted was to be looking over my shoulder wondering if I should have pulled the trigger on the mac or not ?? I am in the 30 day window on these pcs so I can still change my mind. And, was my ML set up being under-served by the Denon/eMotiva?
When I do online research at the usual forums and even talking to sales people (that should know), I get really mixed signals. Ok, I know why Mc was really good back then, why is it still so today compared to others? So what if it is made in NY? What does that do to IMPROVE it from something made in China or anywhere else? Similar ownership and some really identical items with Denon and Marantz make me wonder? I am skeptical of "fan-boy" remarks as they are everywhere for Mc, Apple, Harley, and a bunch of brands. Could make a pile of poo and the fan-boys would love it. I don't want to bow to my knees just because someone said "its a Mcintosh" - WHY will it be better?
Then on the audio BB's you hear people describing it all with terms like "sparkle" (is that not a description of a visual item, not audible?) - wider sound stage, roll off, muddle, etc. "The Mcintosh will sound better" as a description alone tells us nothing.
Fortunately, I have a local Mc dealer that let me "buy" his demo units for a day to audition them side-by-side in my house. Fair enough. Its a lot of money for them to risk and the promise was full refund on return of the items. Agreed. System is an mx121/8207 amp
So I brought the stuff home and set up two systems side by side. Hooked them into the Theos/descent/motions and thought I noticed some better sound early on. But was that just me looking for the Mc to be better at 3X the cost? So I had my wife and a buddy sit in. My hardware is not in the same room as the speakers so a blind audition was easy - I let them be the blind judge all the while knowing I was hearing differences in clarity, high end clarity, muddled bass, sound stage size, etc (haha, these terms all mean something now). I played the same song from exactly the same source each iteration on the test. 2-channel only music for the first part.
Interestingly, even one time I told them I changed preamp/amps (although they did not know from which to which), yet i really did not make the change. At first I thought that they were going to pick one as the better one - but both agreed that there "seemed to be no real difference" (which shocked me that the were honest about it as there really was none - human nature would lead to pick something) - Then we proceeded with the tests playing a variety of music styles, vocals and instrumentals, jazz, rock, etc. Incredibly, every time they picked the Mc over the set up that I had. In the end they were also impressed when I told them that they got the fact I did not change the amps the first time, and that they picked the Mc each time after.
So how would this test go with Classe system, Rotel, or any other number of options that are not 10K for a pre pro or above? I don't know? But I now can tell WHAT people mean when they say "it just will sound better" I really am posting this to just share my experience and more so for the other people like me that go out there reading this stuff and trying to make heads or tails of it all when picking. And to say that I now get it. I actually like the cost of the other option but when I hear the crisp and clean female vocals on the one system to a bit of unnatural rasp on the same with the other, I get what people are saying now. Had I never done the side by side I would likely had been content with the lower dollar option.
So I have no idea what I am doing now - serve the ego and the ears and just do it on the 121/8207 - or keep hunting? The 30 day window is ticking fast so when the music stops I have to sit. Will update the signature when I actually
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