gjarr
Member
It seems audio advisor is now selling The summit x.
audio advisor
- Thread starter gjarr
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DrJRapp
Well-known member
You'll probably see that happening elsewhere soon.
Gordon
Well-known member
And so it begins.........
Gordon
Gordon
Bernard
Well-known member
You have reservations?
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Let me take a try at answering Gordon's post.
First off and in the interest of full disclosure, I've always been a big fan of AA. Have ordered numerous items for myself and others over the years.
Service has been stellar and advice given has, in my experience, been competent.
I typically deal with Tim Hahn but I trust other AA staff are equally knowledgeable.
Having said that, I have the obvious reservations of ordering something over the internet absent the chance of listening to the particular piece in question.
I assume they will still honor their 30 day money back guarantee but one has to wonder how much "hands on" experience AA staff has with a speaker like the Summit. And, in the situation where a person buys the Summit from AA and has questions regarding performance, how will AA staff assess that situation and effectively address the issue.
Another obvious question is ML's long term marketing strategy for a speaker of this sophistication within the context of proper set up, electronics, room treatments, etc. This, of course, would also include the Spire and other stat models in the ML line. Don't want to upset other ML non stat owners but panels, given their nature, do take a bit more work to optimize performance.
One possible scenario is that ML Corporate wants to expose their upper end products to a larger audience. By this action, I must assume that this is true.
However, one must question the impact on brick and mortar stores and how they will view this latest move.
I hope someone in ML Corporate recognizes the long term implications of this decision.
Down Rich down.
GG
First off and in the interest of full disclosure, I've always been a big fan of AA. Have ordered numerous items for myself and others over the years.
Service has been stellar and advice given has, in my experience, been competent.
I typically deal with Tim Hahn but I trust other AA staff are equally knowledgeable.
Having said that, I have the obvious reservations of ordering something over the internet absent the chance of listening to the particular piece in question.
I assume they will still honor their 30 day money back guarantee but one has to wonder how much "hands on" experience AA staff has with a speaker like the Summit. And, in the situation where a person buys the Summit from AA and has questions regarding performance, how will AA staff assess that situation and effectively address the issue.
Another obvious question is ML's long term marketing strategy for a speaker of this sophistication within the context of proper set up, electronics, room treatments, etc. This, of course, would also include the Spire and other stat models in the ML line. Don't want to upset other ML non stat owners but panels, given their nature, do take a bit more work to optimize performance.
One possible scenario is that ML Corporate wants to expose their upper end products to a larger audience. By this action, I must assume that this is true.
However, one must question the impact on brick and mortar stores and how they will view this latest move.
I hope someone in ML Corporate recognizes the long term implications of this decision.
Down Rich down.
GG
There are no upper level ML brick and mortar stores for least 200+ miles. And I don't live in a small town. 2 years ago there were 5 of them.
DrJRapp
Well-known member
I suspect that ML will set a minimum price for AA to sell whatever speaker so that it doesn't have too severe an impact on the locals. That leaves it in the hands and hearts of the individual buyers how they want to proceed. As much of a penny pincher as I can be, I still need the comfort of knowing that a purchase as large (size and $$) as the Summit X needs to be a local purchase for support purposes.
Gordon
Well-known member
Yes Bernard, I do have my reservations. The dealer where I first heard ML several years ago stopped carrying the line. All of it.
When pressed for a reason, the truth was that they thought the brand was being watered down by being offered in BB and various other outlets. It was not an elitist decision. It was more a support for the product. How many folks will purchase an ESL and attempt to run them with a low to mid grade AVR and complain the speaker is no good? The dealer did not want to have that hanging over their heads.
If AA offers the 30 day return, what will that do to the price of the Summit? A guy purchases a pair, won't or can't do what is necessary for them to shine and returns them. They can't sell them again as new, refurbs or returns would have to mentioned and the new asking price would probably be much lower thereby affecting the resale for present owners.
Gordon
When pressed for a reason, the truth was that they thought the brand was being watered down by being offered in BB and various other outlets. It was not an elitist decision. It was more a support for the product. How many folks will purchase an ESL and attempt to run them with a low to mid grade AVR and complain the speaker is no good? The dealer did not want to have that hanging over their heads.
If AA offers the 30 day return, what will that do to the price of the Summit? A guy purchases a pair, won't or can't do what is necessary for them to shine and returns them. They can't sell them again as new, refurbs or returns would have to mentioned and the new asking price would probably be much lower thereby affecting the resale for present owners.
Gordon
Hocky
Well-known member
In my opinion, as long as the quality of the product doesn't suffer, sell it everywhere. Even at walmart. The more they sell, the less they will cost. That is cool in my book.
Mantana
Well-known member
you can buy the Summit X at Best Buy's Magnolia now...they won't have it on the floor, but it's available.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
Frankly, I don't mind seeing AA and BB/Magnolia carry the Summit X, Spire, (or even the CLX), if that's what it takes for ML to stay in business, and keep developing their reference ESL line (now called the Reserve ESL line). When I bought my first pair of ML's (Aerius i's), I drove them with a Yamaha receiver, and as I became more educated about high-end audio, incrementally upgraded to better components, and then to more expensive ML's. The fact is, there are very few high-end B&M stores left, and that downward trend is going to continue. Hopefully, those with a mid-fi mindset who purchase the Reserve or standard ESL line from NON high-end sources, will seek further guidance and advice at ML's website and here, or in other audio forums, and ultimately get them set up properly, and expose more and more folks to the brand. As they say... "beggars can't be choosy," so ML/Paradigm/Shoreview must adapt to the realities of the market.
raygunn
Well-known member
Gordon, these changes happened long ago...
It's amazing to me that so many audiophiles buy something as personal as a speaker or phono cartridge solely on the basis of reviews, forums, heresay, online chats, etc. There is therefore little sense of the cause and effect of poor system-matching, or for that matter, the requirements and responsibilities of owning a Martin Logan or any planar. This is the unfortunate truth. The live "demo" has largely met its demise. As far as Best Buy and others of that type, if there is no real need for a demo nor an intelligent conversation with the customer, then there is no need for real knowledge in their sales force. So there it is. That's how Martin Logan ESL's get bundled into a system along with a 50wpc A/V receiver!
In the early 1990's, Martin Logan changed their dealer network in Florida from high-end (snooty) audio boutiques, to Sound Advice, a consumer electronics chain (later absorbed and put to death by Tweeter).
Sound Advice had the 30 day "test drive" poilicy. They also had a 1 year full value upgrade policy. In addition, every six months they had a
buy one and get the second speaker for 1/2 price sale!
I made use of every one of those policies throughout the 1990's and into the 2000's to upgrade my way up the Martin Logan foodchain and never ever paid MSRP. The only time they ever tried to exclude ML from a deal like that was when I made my final purchase, the CLS 2z 20th anniversary editions. They had no clause that the speakers needed to be a stock item in order to qualify for the "buy one get the second one at half price" deal, so I was able to upgrade from ReQuests to CLS2z 20th anniversaries for a "song" (pardon the pun). A combination of agreeing to a group purchase of 4 pairs as well as intervention from Devin Zell, selaed that deal.
I doubt that Audio Advisor would ever be able to match deals like that or even the "close-out" deals I got on my subwoofers.
For full disclosure, I did happen to be the President of the South Florida Audio Society at the time and that may have swayed the CLS deal, but not any of the others.
IMHO, I think that there is a good chance that ML pricing will likely be more controlled and consistent with a set distributorship of outlets such as Best Buy or Audio Advisor, than by strugglinig small dealers that need to move inventory or ("demos" and "scratch-and-dents) just to generate cash.
I think that ML made the decision a long time ago to dismiss any notion of there being a perception of loss of "cache" of the brand through their sales and marketing actions.
Cheers,
Ray
It's amazing to me that so many audiophiles buy something as personal as a speaker or phono cartridge solely on the basis of reviews, forums, heresay, online chats, etc. There is therefore little sense of the cause and effect of poor system-matching, or for that matter, the requirements and responsibilities of owning a Martin Logan or any planar. This is the unfortunate truth. The live "demo" has largely met its demise. As far as Best Buy and others of that type, if there is no real need for a demo nor an intelligent conversation with the customer, then there is no need for real knowledge in their sales force. So there it is. That's how Martin Logan ESL's get bundled into a system along with a 50wpc A/V receiver!
In the early 1990's, Martin Logan changed their dealer network in Florida from high-end (snooty) audio boutiques, to Sound Advice, a consumer electronics chain (later absorbed and put to death by Tweeter).
Sound Advice had the 30 day "test drive" poilicy. They also had a 1 year full value upgrade policy. In addition, every six months they had a
buy one and get the second speaker for 1/2 price sale!
I made use of every one of those policies throughout the 1990's and into the 2000's to upgrade my way up the Martin Logan foodchain and never ever paid MSRP. The only time they ever tried to exclude ML from a deal like that was when I made my final purchase, the CLS 2z 20th anniversary editions. They had no clause that the speakers needed to be a stock item in order to qualify for the "buy one get the second one at half price" deal, so I was able to upgrade from ReQuests to CLS2z 20th anniversaries for a "song" (pardon the pun). A combination of agreeing to a group purchase of 4 pairs as well as intervention from Devin Zell, selaed that deal.
I doubt that Audio Advisor would ever be able to match deals like that or even the "close-out" deals I got on my subwoofers.
For full disclosure, I did happen to be the President of the South Florida Audio Society at the time and that may have swayed the CLS deal, but not any of the others.
IMHO, I think that there is a good chance that ML pricing will likely be more controlled and consistent with a set distributorship of outlets such as Best Buy or Audio Advisor, than by strugglinig small dealers that need to move inventory or ("demos" and "scratch-and-dents) just to generate cash.
I think that ML made the decision a long time ago to dismiss any notion of there being a perception of loss of "cache" of the brand through their sales and marketing actions.
Cheers,
Ray
Again, the Xs are the 7th top selling item AA. That's a lot of Summits leaving out the door at full retail and a win win for ML.
I would not be surprised to see Cruthfield next. They seem to be following Thiel's lead. There will always be brick and motor stores around but you cannot stay in business going that route. If ML went that route they would have to charge outrageous prices per unit to make up for volume.
I would not be surprised to see Cruthfield next. They seem to be following Thiel's lead. There will always be brick and motor stores around but you cannot stay in business going that route. If ML went that route they would have to charge outrageous prices per unit to make up for volume.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
Ummm... I surfed over to audioadvisor.com, and neither the Summit X nor the Spires are listed online. As for the 7th most popular item, it's the ML Helos 20! I think the O.P. and some others are mistaken.
WTF??? I checked it out just yesterday, and the Summit X was there bigger than life...for $6700!!!
But you're right, they're not there now!
sleepysurf
Well-known member
Oh, found them listed under demos/closeouts for $6000/pair.
Just kidding! :devil:
Just kidding! :devil:
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
WTF??? I checked it out just yesterday, and the Summit X was there bigger than life...for $6700!!!
But you're right, they're not there now!
The price shown and noted, two days ago, was per each.
GG
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