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Anyone run different MLs side by side?

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raanan

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I have CLSs and SL3s.The CLss are definitely bass deficient.Any advantages to running the CLss side by side with my SL3s?The SL3s are a much more balanced sounding speaker,but lack the charm and details of the CLSs.
Thanks,Raanan
 

Jeff Zaret

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raanan,
I have CLS's and Sequel II's in my home theater setup. I would say that the CLS are not really that bass deficient but do lack the punch you may be looking for. I would say you need to decide on which you like better and my guess would be the CLS for music and the SL3’s for everything in between.
I would imagine you would have to have to very good amps to druve them both at the same time as they both are current hungry in comparison to the newer models.
What I would suggest is a sub for the CLS. I have the Depth and it fills in where the CLS lacks at the very bottom end and to my ears a great compliment to the overall sound.

Jeff :cool:
 

raanan

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Thanks,Jeff

I would expect from the stacked ESL QUAD 57 pairs,that I once had,that running 2 pairs of MLs concurrently would provide sufficient bass.
Lowest bass was missing with the stacked 57 pairs,but the resultant sound was so full,that there was really no need for a sub.
The best sub that I used with the CLSs was,most surprisingly-an AR1W woofer.
And,with CLSs,a sub is mandatory.I have to think of a way to set up the SL3s and the CLSs together.
Raanan
 

aliveatfive

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raanan said:
I would expect from the stacked ESL QUAD 57 pairs,that I once had,that running 2 pairs of MLs concurrently would provide sufficient bass.
Lowest bass was missing with the stacked 57 pairs,but the resultant sound was so full,that there was really no need for a sub.
The best sub that I used with the CLSs was,most surprisingly-an AR1W woofer.
And,with CLSs,a sub is mandatory.I have to think of a way to set up the SL3s and the CLSs together.
Raanan
IMHO, the only way to use your SL3s with the CLS is to use the SLs as surround speakers. Stacked Quads used identical speakers with identical drivers. Your configuration does not. You would probably experience phase anomolies and other problems. I once used double Advent loudspeakers in an early stereo configuration. Even with those speakers, doubling up became problematic. I would not use both speakers in the front channels.
 

roberto

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raanan said:
I would expect from the stacked ESL QUAD 57 pairs,that I once had,that running 2 pairs of MLs concurrently would provide sufficient bass.
Lowest bass was missing with the stacked 57 pairs,but the resultant sound was so full,that there was really no need for a sub.
The best sub that I used with the CLSs was,most surprisingly-an AR1W woofer.
And,with CLSs,a sub is mandatory.I have to think of a way to set up the SL3s and the CLSs together.
Raanan
Hola Raanan...with all respect, I don't agreed with you about the sub. Also, I now that there are here at the Club, many good friends that use a sub with their CLS, like Dan and Jeff. I do respect their position as yours also. On the other hand, my CLS IIz supplies all the bass that I need in my room. Every time that I try to sep up a sub with them, I start to bring the level of the sub down, down, until I say there, then I realize that the sub is almost doing nothing...don't get me wrong here. It depends a lot of the type of music that you listen, too. If you are using your CLS for HT, the sub is mandatory, as you said, but this is true for all models also, not only the CLS. If I have too much bass energy in my room, I loose the super great scenario that I get with them, including the size of the bass player at the stage. My CLS goes deep enough to show and give me the soul of the musician playing for me. What I listen most of the time, is combo jazz, classical soloist, and small chamber orchestra also...I think it is a matter of taste. I played bass in my group long time ago, so also, I do know how a fender bass sounds with a Westmister Vox amplifier with an 18" woofer. Again, I think that there are just a few, very few instruments go very deep. I do enjoy an organ, through my CLS...yes not all the notes are deeper as well as if I use a sub, but I rather have my stage and scenario as I get it without the sub than too many bass enery that destroys that, in my room. Again, this is my liking, and not necessary yours...but if you bring your CLS at least 1.30 meters away of the back wall, tilt them laying on their's back about at least 1/2 an inch, and from this distance you start to "tune them" for bass energy in your room, you will feel that the sub is not needed with this type of music. The coherence and the ability to reproduce all the audio spectrum full range, without any crossover in the signal path is the most forefront purist speaker that I have found. I talked with Jim Power once, and he agreed with me regarding this...but he pointed me out that if you want "more bass energy" in your room, just add a sub without crossovering the signal...just around 40 Hz and below is control's the set up of the sub, and using the level just enough to get there, where you don't hear it, but you feel is there...difficult to match, due to the speed of the stat panel...
This is my liking...the truth is, I'm still in love with my CLS IIZ and still I get goose bumps when I listen a lot of wonderful musicians out there!!!...trust your ears, and happy listening,
Roberto.
 
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Jeff Zaret

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Roberto,
You are correct. THe issue I have with my room is I have no back wall to help develop the lower registers (bass) so a little bit of help with the sub is all I need. I think I have the cross over set at 45 and I run my CLSiiZ's full range.

Your friend and guitar player :D

Jeff :cool:
 

miljac

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Just a reflection ....

I use a sub with my Ascents covering almost fully the lowest octave from 15-30 Hz. Having experimented a little with an parametric EQ and house curves I have noticed that the house curve makes the sound like experienced in the e.g. concert hall; the flat response will be perceived as being a little "bright".
If you mostly listen to classical & opera, you really might try using a good sub with the CLS and use SMS-1 or Behringer to shape a house curve, you might be very pleased with results.
I'd say that any music involving a grand piano, symphonic orchestra or an organ will definitely profit from a sub. In my setup/room the sub also improved the positioning of instruments and (obviously) the dynamics.


miljac
 

roberto

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Jeff Zaret said:
Roberto,
You are correct. THe issue I have with my room is I have no back wall to help develop the lower registers (bass) so a little bit of help with the sub is all I need. I think I have the cross over set at 45 and I run my CLSiiZ's full range.

Your friend and guitar player :D

Jeff :cool:
Hola Jeff...yes, I know how difficult for you is the low frequency. Also Dan got a kind of an equalizer from Velodine, if I am not wrong, to set it the best way at his room. Because we have to deal with the standing waves that are present in all rooms. Becasue the CLS don't use any box for lows, you have to find where at the room, they perform the best for the bass, not finding only one note bass, but the seek for even bass notes. I have read a lot of posts where the mention of dBs is used, but I have not read one the mentions the word "Sabin"...the unit to measure the property of sound absortion of any material. Definetively, sound is complicated, and we have the best tool availble in the whole world...our ears...trust them, they say right!!!Happy listening my dear friend,
Pura vida,
Roberto.
 

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