Anyone have the MartinLogan BalancedForce 210/212 subwoofer?

[aznattic]

I'm basically copying this from the AVS forum where i posted this.

Just curious if anyone has tried out or owns the ML BalancedForce 210 or 212 subwoofer.

I auditioned the 212 version today along with Martin Logan Montis speakers hooked up on mcintosh equipment and i was extremely impressed with the way it handled music (very fast, not punchy either). I asked the rep to play a movie and he chose The Dark Knight Rises scene where Batman shows up in the tunnel. I wasn't impressed with the way it handled it, sounded like the subwoofer wasn't even on but in all fairness the subwoofer did not seem properly tuned. The rep then pressed a button on the subwoofer which checks to see what is resonating in the room and the subwoofer showed quite some power, shaking nearly everything. Wish the subwoofer was properly tuned in the first place.

Anyways, just seeing who else has tried the subwoofer out or owns one. Despite the less than pleasant demo, i am considering this subwoofer (the 210 model) as well as the SVS PB Ultras, 2 Dynamo 1500X (which has great reviews), or the reaction audio PVX15 or PAS PS215X (both are setup in the same way as the 210/212 BF) to go with my Theos and Motif X. I do realize that the 210 would be significantly smaller driver size compared to the subwoofers i listed but they are priced much cheaper. My budget is $2000 which is what i was quoted for the 210 model. I do 50/50 movies and music, and I'm looking for clean bass for music and a subwoofer with decent impact for movies.

 

[RUR]

Just curious if anyone has tried out or owns the ML BalancedForce 210 or 212 subwoofer.

Alan (sleepysurf) owns a 210 and reports on it starting with this post:http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...-and-212-subs!&p=162009&viewfull=1#post162009

 

[Hocky]

Get a PB13 ultra and don't look back.

 

[mac_tweety]

Hi,

unfortunately the new 212/210 subs are not available in Germany.

But last week I listened to the ML Descent I in my HIFI shop.

Equipment: Mcintosh C2500, MC601, ML Montis , ML Descent i, ML Depth i

First I auditioned the Descent i. ( for example: Chris Rea - Somewhere between Highway 61 & 49 from the Road to Hell )
And I must say the Descent I sounded wonderfull together with the Montis.
The bass of the Montis is not bad, but together with the Descent i it was superb.
Then same music pieces with the Depth i... not as good as the Descent i.
So I ordered the Descent I for testing in my system ( also ML Montis and Mcintosh )

 

[sleepysurf]

Yes, I have a single BF 210. I bought it primarily to treat a room null (at ~ 6o Hz) that I had with my Summits. The BF 210 solved that issue, but only with manual settings, as the downloadable Summit filters crossed over too low. The PBK helped optimize it's output, but I'm still "tweaking" the phase settings, and trying to find the ideal room placement. For kicks, I just borrowed a friends Bryston external crossover, and will see if I can get even better integration with my Summits using that. I'd also love to see a formal review of the 210 or 212, particularly one with measurements too.

 

[sleepysurf]

Get a PB13 ultra and don't look back.

The SVS PB13 is certainly a great value, but it's a single driver ported design, vs. the sealed box dual drivers of the BalancedForce subs. Different strokes for different folks!

 

[Northy]

The remainder inventory of Descents and Depths are being offered at very attractive prices. You should be able to get a Descent for $2k. I would choose this over the 210.

 

[sleepysurf]

The remainder inventory of Descents and Depths are being offered at very attractive prices. You should be able to get a Descent for $2k. I would choose this over the 210.

The one advantage of getting a newer BF sub (vs. Depth or Descent closeout) would be for PBK compatibility, plus downloadable Montis specific filter, though, depending upon room, you might ultimately still need to manually dial in like me.

 

[Hocky]

The SVS PB13 is certainly a great value, but it's a single driver ported design, vs. the sealed box dual drivers of the BalancedForce subs. Different strokes for different folks!

I have had abyss, descent, JL f212, and dual pb13 in my combo. The dual pb13 outperform everything else by a large margin at everything.

 

[InterMechanico]

The one advantage of getting a newer BF sub (vs. Depth or Descent closeout) would be for PBK compatibility, plus downloadable Montis specific filter, though, depending upon room, you might ultimately still need to manually dial in like me.

I think I recall Peter Soderberg saying that they would make model specific filter chips available (like the CLX chip) for the Descent I; this was in advance of the BF 210/212 release. I may be wrong in that, but that would make the Descent I a spectacular deal at 2k.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

no, there was no plan to do different filter boards for the Descent, Depths other than the one for the CLX. For the Balanced Force, one can go to the ML site, download a filter for almost any ML speaker made over time and load to the woofer. As we are now in the digital domain, we can even sound better than the old analogue board when used with the CLX. Key to note is that it will make it much easier to blend with products although it can not see relative placements of the satellite and the sub so setting up those relative levels and phase adjustments still must be done by ear.

 

[InterMechanico]

no, there was no plan to do different filter boards for the Descent, Depths other than the one for the CLX. For the Balanced Force, one can go to the ML site, download a filter for almost any ML speaker made over time and load to the woofer. As we are now in the digital domain, we can even sound better than the old analogue board when used with the CLX. Key to note is that it will make it much easier to blend with products although it can not see relative placements of the satellite and the sub so setting up those relative levels and phase adjustments still must be done by ear.

My mistake...No filters.

 

[babydoc]

May The Balanced Force 212 Be With You

I'm basically copying this from the AVS forum where i posted this.

Just curious if anyone has tried out or owns the ML BalancedForce 210 or 212 subwoofer.

I auditioned the 212 version today along with Martin Logan Montis speakers hooked up on mcintosh equipment and i was extremely impressed with the way it handled music (very fast, not punchy either). I asked the rep to play a movie and he chose The Dark Knight Rises scene where Batman shows up in the tunnel. I wasn't impressed with the way it handled it, sounded like the subwoofer wasn't even on but in all fairness the subwoofer did not seem properly tuned. The rep then pressed a button on the subwoofer which checks to see what is resonating in the room and the subwoofer showed quite some power, shaking nearly everything. Wish the subwoofer was properly tuned in the first place.

Anyways, just seeing who else has tried the subwoofer out or owns one. Despite the less than pleasant demo, i am considering this subwoofer (the 210 model) as well as the SVS PB Ultras, 2 Dynamo 1500X (which has great reviews), or the reaction audio PVX15 or PAS PS215X (both are setup in the same way as the 210/212 BF) to go with my Theos and Motif X. I do realize that the 210 would be significantly smaller driver size compared to the subwoofers i listed but they are priced much cheaper. My budget is $2000 which is what i was quoted for the 210 model. I do 50/50 movies and music, and I'm looking for clean bass for music and a subwoofer with decent impact for movies.

I have gone up the ML Subwoofer ladder from the Descent to the Descent-i and now to the BF 212. My system (#308) is based on the CLXs, Stage X and EFX electrostats. With the Perfect Bass Kit and specific filters for the CLXs the match between the subs and my main speakers is nigh unto "perfect." Being able to dial in a ideal frequency curve is critical to my system since I have to locate the subs in the corners (yes I have two BF 212s). When properly set up, the bass reflects what is in the source (obviously some film soundtracks are excessively boomy and no sub will fix that). What you get with these new subs is an opening up of the midrange, an important fringe benefit of having the proper low frequency coverage that, at least in my CLXs, was deliberately rolled off at 55 Hz.

I have not heard the PS Ultra sub which checks in at about half the price of BF 212. Its design is quite different from the BF series but it may provide a good match for your Theos. When considering a purchase like this (none of these higher end subs are cheap), it is best to deal with a bricks-and-mortar shop so that you can demo it in your own system.

 

[aznattic]

Thanks for the responses. My apologies for the late response.

I've decided to just get one Dynamo 1500X (gloss black) in the meantime and see how it sounds with the Theos. After reading great reviews for the subwoofer it made my list even though it doesn't go as low as the SVS or Reaction audio offerings. I just like the fact that i can tune it with the PBK. I will see how it sounds in my room (roughly 23x16x12). Got it for a an amazing deal as well. The only regret i may have is that i didn't buy two, but i didn't do so since i may purchase a Balanced Force 212 in January and use the 1500X as a secondary subwoofer.

Picking out a subwoofer was much more difficult than i expected and even more difficult than picking out my front towers.

 

[aznattic]

Yes, I have a single BF 210. I bought it primarily to treat a room null (at ~ 6o Hz) that I had with my Summits. The BF 210 solved that issue, but only with manual settings, as the downloadable Summit filters crossed over too low. The PBK helped optimize it's output, but I'm still "tweaking" the phase settings, and trying to find the ideal room placement. For kicks, I just borrowed a friends Bryston external crossover, and will see if I can get even better integration with my Summits using that. I'd also love to see a formal review of the 210 or 212, particularly one with measurements too.

How large is your room? I did get to demo the Balanced Force 212 again and it was simply amazing. Since it was out of my price range, i was considering the Balanced Force 210 but was concerned it would not fill my larger room with the deep bass impact for movies.