anyone adding on tweeters to CLSs?

[raanan]

I have just tried adding Sequerra T9s with great results.Oddly,there seems to be more bass too.The CLSs were not open enough in a heavily carpeted room,but removing the carpets screwed up th room acoustics.
Raanan

 

[kwr]

I find this an interesting call Raanan as I would have assumed adding a tweeter would have destroyed the top end balance - different wave form launch axis behaviour etc. What amp are you using to power your CLS?

Kevin

 

[roberto]

I have just tried adding Sequerra T9s with great results.Oddly,there seems to be more bass too.The CLSs were not open enough in a heavily carpeted room,but removing the carpets screwed up th room acoustics.
Raanan

Hola Raanan...one of the most important feature of the CLSs is called coherence. By this means that there are no crossover in the signal path...and they play the music full range. No problem with the phase also. Now, if you are just adding the tweeter, and using the same amplifier, be careful. Adding a crossover to the circuit of the CLSs in paralell connection can cause more problems and can damage your power amplifier, than just geeting more highs in the room...how are you adjusting the sensitivity of the tweeter and match the right amount of the signal to the tweeter and the CLSs?...Is you are missing highs, perhaps you have problems with the stat panels. If you still want to add the tweeter to the CLSs, you need another power amplifier with variable input signal, (volume control) to drive just the tweeters alone. With this setting, also you can seek for the right amount of tweeter level and will not harm the CLSs amplifier. Remember to have a crossover to the tweeter...some very fast tweeters like the ones that are made of ribbon and comes with a crossover inside the case of them. Don´t fire the tweeters to the front, because you will hear them ease. Place them to fire to the back wall...it is better to have quality than quantity...hope this can help!...happy listening, and remember: "trust your ears"!
Roberto.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

It maybe the panels or the room. Have the panels been vacuumed, cleaned or replaced recently? Are the CLS's on spikes, or directly on the floor?

I have more than enough trteble-highs from my panels. I replaced my panels earlier this year and the are perfect!

Jeff

 

[Spike]

I have just tried adding Sequerra T9s with great results.Oddly,there seems to be more bass too.The CLSs were not open enough in a heavily carpeted room,but removing the carpets screwed up th room acoustics.

There are several reasons for the issue of "CLSs not being opened enough" and one should not jump to blame the CLS just yet...

• Given that the CLS presents a tough load, specifically, dropping down to 1 ohm around the 20kHz region, the problem could be at the amplifier end running out of steam at the higher frequency range. The typical characteristic of full-range panels having a wide impedance swing really put quite a bit of stress on the amplifier. The resulting sound from this combination is really dependent on the amplifier's implementation.

• The panels are getting older, losing the (taut) resonsiveness to handle high-freqencies the way they used to.

• Your room is overly damped, absorbing the high-frequencies.

• Last but not least, you have a preference for lively top-end.

The first step to sorting things out is to borrow (or loan) a good, reputable amplifier with the sound characteristic of your preference and try it out in your room. This exercise will give you indications whether the problem is at the amplifier side or on the speaker/room side. If everything improves with the different (new) amplifier, then it's the amplification side of the equation that you need to focus on. Otherwise, you can eliminate the amplifier issue and focus on the speaker and room.
Examine your speaker panels closely to try and determine whether the panels need replacement. Call ML and give them the serial numbers to determine whether the panels are old and need replacements. While talking to ML, you can also ask them about whether there are maintenance (or replacement) to be done on the electronics of the CLS as well. Other knowledgeable members here can give you tips on how to inspect your speakers to ensure they are in good shape.
Once you can determine that speakers are in decent shape, the problem could be the interaction between the speakers and room. You'll want to play with placements and room arrangement to see whether things improve.
Last but not least, you may have a preference for lively top-end where the coherency of the full-range panels does not match with your taste This may seem like an easy one to identify by going around to listen to a bunch of speakers to see the characteristics which appeal to you, but then you'll need to make sure that you give the CLS with proper electronics and set-up a fair chance as well. The later one is very hard to come by

Good luck
Spike

 

[raanan]

Spike,Thanks for addressing the manifold possibilities.

I will try to put together a reply.
As I have listened for many many years with ESL57s,I doubt if I have a need for an over-bright sound with exaggerated highs.
I am listening in an overdamped room with a Moscode 600 amp.The amp's sound does tend to be lush and definitely not bright.I use zero autoformers at the 3x setting,so,I doubt if the amp is running out of steam.
The panels were changed from the originals to new panels 3 years ago,and I vacuum them religiously every 3 months or so.With the originals,sound deteriorated strongly with cold and wet weather,with the new panels,sound is constant.

While the integration with the Sequerra tweeters is not completely seamless,it makes for pleasurable listening.

The CLSs in my small bedroom are a much better acoustic match than in my living room which is about 20 feet by 12.The speakers are placed more or less according to the rule of thirds.I augment bass with a Williamson 6550C triode amp pushing an AR-1W-a surprisingly good match,the best that I have heard until now.The woofer does not lag behind the CLSs.

Raanan

 

[raanan]

I find this an interesting call Raanan as I would have assumed adding a tweeter would have destroyed the top end balance - different wave form launch axis behaviour etc. What amp are you using to power your CLS?

Kevin

Moscode 600 with zero autoformers at the 3x position.
I have had the T9s for more than a year,and never thought to add them to the CLSs.

 

[Spike]

Raanan,
Looks like you've addressed the issues I raised in the last post already. Here are a couple more which I think you might have thought off already but I'll throw them out anyways...

1. Time to roll tubes and get some NOS ones into the Moscode.
2. Play with sound difusers instead of over-absorb the room.

Good luck
Spike

 

[raanan]

Thanks,Spike.
Both points that you raised in your 2nd post decidedly merit looking into.
Fortunately,I just received some tubes for retubing the Moscode.
What diffusors can you recommend?Raanan

 

[Spike]

What diffusors can you recommend?

Sorry, now you're touching on subjects beyond my direct experience so I can't really make any recommendation. I only read up on a few articles but that's about the extent of my involvements to room accoustics & treatments. Here are a couple of links I was able to find...

Home Theater: Design the Ultimate Home Theater

RPG Diffuser Systems

Good luck
Spike

 

[Spike]

Room acoustics article

I found this article regarding room acoustics on the Positive-Feedback. Hope this helps...

Room Acoustics - The Final Frontier

Spike

 

[raanan]

Appreciated.Raanan

 

[raanan]

I found this article regarding room acoustics on the Positive-Feedback. Hope this helps...

Room Acoustics - The Final Frontier

Spike

Changed 6 tubes on the Moscode 600,and the sound opened up.It has long been my experience that with time tubes age,affecting the HF response with stats.Same story with QUAD IIs and ESL57s-all the divine KT66s stop being divine after a year of use ,because the high frequencies are not there any more.As the process is so gradual,it is a never ending source of frustration,as you don't understand why a system that used to sound so involving has "paled."That is why the addition of quality tweeters,other than serving as a "smokescreen" for a problem,adds to listening enjoyment even if the problem has not been addressed at the source.
Raanan

 

[kach22i]

This was the last tweeter thread I could find. I found this to be interesting, what do you think, expensive snow balls?


http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1138044029
Elac CL 4Pi-Plus ribbon supertweeter

Why did I just think of Janet Jackson?