As you can see I went with Volumio, but thanks for getting the conversation started that pushed me in this direction. I'm tickled with how well this is working and how effortless it was to setup. I will end up listening to my stereo a lot more now.
Any good media streamers coming out, or just released lately?
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As you can see I went with Volumio, but thanks for getting the conversation started that pushed me in this direction. I'm tickled with how well this is working and how effortless it was to setup. I will end up listening to my stereo a lot more now.
Now I'm trying to find an easy way to share a folder or drive on a Windows computer as an NAS drive. If not I'll need to set one up off my router.
amey01
Well-known member
And all you need is a few more SD cards, and you can play with all the other 'Pi builds (like Rune, Moode, PiCorePlayer, Riopeee, etc) without destroying your Volumio server.
Looks like the system suits your needs well.
amey01
Well-known member
They're great, hey?
One bit of advice - if you decide you're going to settle on Volumio, keep your SD card backed up periodically (just an image on the music drive is fine) - Volumio is one of the heavier-weight distros and doesn't run fully in RAM like the lightweight ones - so SD corruption can happen.
agladstone
Active member
I’ll have to look into the Adnaco fiber to USB, no question fiber is “the” way to go in regards to not only galvanic isolation, but also to break noisy AC line leakage that typical enters into DAC via the USB cable from often polluted wall outlet from switching power supplies or light dimmers, or refrigerator, etc.
agladstone
Active member
You’re correct the WiFi is also a way for galvanic isolation, however it’s not a good method for going from streamer to DAC (I don’t believe it’s even possible to connect an external streamer/server to a DAC via WiFi unless it’s an all in one streamer DAC (like the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge). However for DSD files and 24 / 192 high resolution, wired is still the best method regardless.
Secondly, I’m using the universal term “USB Reclocker” however these devices do a lot more than just reclocking the USB signal, they also inject clean linear power into the power side of USB cable, the also split the power and the data of the incoming USB cable into two USB outs (one for clean linear power only and the other for data only), they also apply extensive filters to “clean” the USB data and power lines, remove jitter, they also use much higher grade clocks vs. what’s inside your DAC (like a Crystek, etc) and as mentioned also provide galvanic isolation of the USB cable and power and data lines and simultaneously break AC line leakage from entering the DAC via the USB cable. Some of these devices also include digital to digital conversion so you can go in USB and out Is2 (HDMI) or COAX, since USB is really far from the best connection since the power and data lines are typically twisted together and it was never intended or designed as an audio interface to begin with (it’s a very noisy connection and full of jitter).
Last, because I (and lots of others) use a Supercapacitor based external linear power supply to power by USB “fixer”, it also completely isolated and disconnects by USB input right before entering the DAC from the entire upstream AC power line since Supercapacitors are essentially just a battery.
That's not what we are doing.
The Raspberry Pi has WIFI to the music source then it send the music data to the DAC by async USB.
My OPPO 105D has a USB port specifically for transferring data to the DAC.
So the WIFI transfer gets streamed data to the streaming device which intern sends it directly to a DAC by USB and it is a great connection for transferring data. My USB cables are both shielded and have an EMI ferrite rings built into them. The noise you are talking about is irrelevant and doesn't make it to the music chain.
Ethernet is in no way superior for transferring data whether it is converted to Music by a DAC or is part of a block chain algorithm.
IT IS ALL ABOUT how the data is sent and what kind of error correction is being used. The only way you will hear issues is if there is out of spec hardware in the loop.
I have my Streamer, and DAC and amplifier powered from the same surge off the same circuit so there should be no ground loop issues.
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Sound advice. I was already thinking about both backing it up and having other SD cards to play with other things.
Volumio "claims" that they fit everything into RAM, but maybe I missed something.
After using the Android client for a while today, there was one thing that surprised me. The Search feature ran across BOTH my local library and the only other plugin I have enabled, Spotify. It would show me album artwork for my local files and a circle with a dot inside it for Spotify tracks. I'm very curious how that would work if I had Tidal in the mix as well. Throwing a dart, maybe it would show a little wave icon.
amey01
Well-known member
Before you read any further, go to Google and type definition: asynchronous.
So I'll say it again -
1. You can't "re-clock" unclocked data
2. You can't have jitter when the data is not timed/clocked!
I am not (and have never advocated) connecting a DAC via wi-fi.......I am using a computer (in my case, Raspberry Pi, but you can use any computer) to send bitperfect data to the DAC.
All you've got to do is get data (ALL the data) to the DAC. It is capable of doing everything else. That's what you're paying for.
The DAC is powered by its own power supply, so in this case, sure the power side of the USB may well be energised, but there is no current flow. In fact, I would expect the designers have actually "cut off" the power side of the USB cable at their input........but I don't know. All I do know is that......when I have paid what I have for my DAC, I trust the designer has taken the necessary steps to ensure the data stream is not damaged.
That's not to say my DAC is perfect. It is not. It can most certainly be bettered. I just don't think there is any economic sense in me trying to do that with little snakeoil tweaks. If I want a better DAC, I'll go out and buy........a better DAC.
You keep mentioning "jitter", but you haven't read my post above - how can you have jitter on a line that is not even clocked??
Wired connections are certainly superior in terms of stability, reliability and speed.......but it doesn't impact on sound quality. Because all the data is transferred bit-for-bit. Even high-res audio places very little stress on modern wi-fi networks.
And coax for DSD - it won't even work because it doesn't have the bandwidth for anything more than DSD64, so why on earth would you want to convert USB to coax? Why would you want to lock your DAC to a SPDIF stream when it can control the show with async? I2S yes, but how many DACs have an I2s HDMI input?
Honestly - if you think you can do better than DAC designers - If you think the heavyweight designers are missing important things that can somehow be fixed wtih cheap little tweak boxes............ by playing with these tweaks in your lounge room, I think you might be a bit misguided sorry.
You would do well to read up on what async USB connections are. (Like the actual USB-IF spec - not some pseduo audiophile company telling you everthing that is wrong with USB and how their products can miracously fix it).
You physically can't "re-clock" any data on an async USB line (and you inherently don't have jitter) becasue the line is being controlled by the DAC and it's clock. The only jitter when you use this type of connection comes from the DAC itself (and its clock)......which is present no matter how many "re-clockers" you put in between!!
So any company telling you that they are "re-clocking" an asynchronous connection is bull5hitting.......they don't even understand the basics......or common sense......and I certainly wouldn't trust them with my precious audio signal!
I wish you could "fix" USB data.......I could use one of these things to do my internet banking and get a bigger bank balance......but alas, no. USB connections are designed for bitperfect data transfer, and that is exactly what they do - whether the data represents banking, OS updates.......or even, shock horror...... music.
I'll finish by asserting that what you are doing may actually be hurting the sound......it may not be hurting the sound of course, but I think it is likely. A cheap device that is trying to send data to a DAC at its pre-defined set rate (re-clocking), when the DAC is the device that is trying to control the rate (async) would lead to some very strange scenarios........I can't predict what might be the result. But I know enough to know that I wouldn't even attempt such an absurd scenario in my system.
So I'll say it again -
1. You can't "re-clock" unclocked data
2. You can't have jitter when the data is not timed/clocked!
I am not (and have never advocated) connecting a DAC via wi-fi.......I am using a computer (in my case, Raspberry Pi, but you can use any computer) to send bitperfect data to the DAC.
All you've got to do is get data (ALL the data) to the DAC. It is capable of doing everything else. That's what you're paying for.
The DAC is powered by its own power supply, so in this case, sure the power side of the USB may well be energised, but there is no current flow. In fact, I would expect the designers have actually "cut off" the power side of the USB cable at their input........but I don't know. All I do know is that......when I have paid what I have for my DAC, I trust the designer has taken the necessary steps to ensure the data stream is not damaged.
That's not to say my DAC is perfect. It is not. It can most certainly be bettered. I just don't think there is any economic sense in me trying to do that with little snakeoil tweaks. If I want a better DAC, I'll go out and buy........a better DAC.
You keep mentioning "jitter", but you haven't read my post above - how can you have jitter on a line that is not even clocked??
Wired connections are certainly superior in terms of stability, reliability and speed.......but it doesn't impact on sound quality. Because all the data is transferred bit-for-bit. Even high-res audio places very little stress on modern wi-fi networks.
And coax for DSD - it won't even work because it doesn't have the bandwidth for anything more than DSD64, so why on earth would you want to convert USB to coax? Why would you want to lock your DAC to a SPDIF stream when it can control the show with async? I2S yes, but how many DACs have an I2s HDMI input?
Honestly - if you think you can do better than DAC designers - If you think the heavyweight designers are missing important things that can somehow be fixed wtih cheap little tweak boxes............ by playing with these tweaks in your lounge room, I think you might be a bit misguided sorry.
You would do well to read up on what async USB connections are. (Like the actual USB-IF spec - not some pseduo audiophile company telling you everthing that is wrong with USB and how their products can miracously fix it).
You physically can't "re-clock" any data on an async USB line (and you inherently don't have jitter) becasue the line is being controlled by the DAC and it's clock. The only jitter when you use this type of connection comes from the DAC itself (and its clock)......which is present no matter how many "re-clockers" you put in between!!
So any company telling you that they are "re-clocking" an asynchronous connection is bull5hitting.......they don't even understand the basics......or common sense......and I certainly wouldn't trust them with my precious audio signal!
I wish you could "fix" USB data.......I could use one of these things to do my internet banking and get a bigger bank balance......but alas, no. USB connections are designed for bitperfect data transfer, and that is exactly what they do - whether the data represents banking, OS updates.......or even, shock horror...... music.
I'll finish by asserting that what you are doing may actually be hurting the sound......it may not be hurting the sound of course, but I think it is likely. A cheap device that is trying to send data to a DAC at its pre-defined set rate (re-clocking), when the DAC is the device that is trying to control the rate (async) would lead to some very strange scenarios........I can't predict what might be the result. But I know enough to know that I wouldn't even attempt such an absurd scenario in my system.
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amey01
Well-known member
Maybe they do, I don't know - as I said, I haven't spent enough time with Volumio to know much more than you do now.
agladstone
Active member
First, Oppo uses a switching power supply, not a linear one, so from the start the USB cable going into your DAC from the Oppo is full of nothing but noise, jitter and both high and low frequency AC line leakage via the USB Cable. You’re actually much better off going directly from Ras Pi USB to DAC (skip going through the Oppo, it’s garbage ) and also make sure to only power the Raspberry Pi with a battery, Supercapacitor, or high end Linear Power Supply. However, even if doing as I suggest, it will still sound a million times better adding one of the USB fixer devices I mentioned in-between the Rasberry Pi and the DAC.
The ifi iUSB 3.0 is a good one to try, but make sure you also purchase a power supply for it like the Uptone Audio LPS 1.2 or the Farrad 3.
amey01
Well-known member
1. You keep saying it, so I'll keep retorting. How can you have jitter on an unclocked/async connection?
2. If "fixing" USB is as easy as buying a little iFi thingy, why haven't any DAC designers thought of it? (it's a pretty easy thing to incorporate if it nets sound which is
This just keeps getting easier and easier.
1. Plug an external USB drive into my WIFI router, and instant NAS drive.
2. Have Volumio scan for network drives, select drive and let it index the music.
In the category of this just can't get any easier, this is just amazingly simple.
I didn't even configure anything. The drive just showed up on the router and worked. There are security configuration settings that I can use, but this is pretty cool. I just had to let Volumio scan for drives and then click on the drive it found and save.
I may set it up to run on my router's 5GHz signal. Since it will be communicating directly with the NAS drive on the router, that would keep it separate from my Roku's and cell phones and Nest that are currently running on 2.4GHz.
With regard to the on going back and forth discussion, I'm amazed at how little credit the engineers who design these products get. It seems to be continually assumed that there is no isolation, filtering, and basic circuitry to handle normal issues of transferring data.
With regard to Raspberry Pi computers. That little board is nothing short of amazing to me and it may be worth noting that many of the streaming devices out there have Raspberry Pi boards in them tucked away out of sight.
1. Plug an external USB drive into my WIFI router, and instant NAS drive.
2. Have Volumio scan for network drives, select drive and let it index the music.
In the category of this just can't get any easier, this is just amazingly simple.
I didn't even configure anything. The drive just showed up on the router and worked. There are security configuration settings that I can use, but this is pretty cool. I just had to let Volumio scan for drives and then click on the drive it found and save.
I may set it up to run on my router's 5GHz signal. Since it will be communicating directly with the NAS drive on the router, that would keep it separate from my Roku's and cell phones and Nest that are currently running on 2.4GHz.
With regard to the on going back and forth discussion, I'm amazed at how little credit the engineers who design these products get. It seems to be continually assumed that there is no isolation, filtering, and basic circuitry to handle normal issues of transferring data.
With regard to Raspberry Pi computers. That little board is nothing short of amazing to me and it may be worth noting that many of the streaming devices out there have Raspberry Pi boards in them tucked away out of sight.
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amey01
Well-known member
I've heard this a few times. Maybe Goldmund?????
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/references/Goldmund/goldmundizator.html
JLasher22443
Well-known member
Please neither of you take this the wrong way but; do either of you actually work in the audio industry of making or designing equipment?(amey01 and agladstone) Just out of curiosity since both of you seem to know a lot about the ins and outs of it all. This is not a dig its an actual curious question.
Also on a side note, I love John Darko's reviews and YouTube page and I found an older article of his where he asked Gordon Rankin about USB Audio. Pretty interesting read.
Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies
Also on a side note, I love John Darko's reviews and YouTube page and I found an older article of his where he asked Gordon Rankin about USB Audio. Pretty interesting read.
Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies
(deleted) Decided to abstain.
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I noticed Volumio is showing 320 kbps x 16 bit for the music I'm playing through Spotify.
I was a bit surprised, but found out that for premium subscriptions they moved up to 320kbs a little while.
Not too bad actually.
I was a bit surprised, but found out that for premium subscriptions they moved up to 320kbs a little while.
Not too bad actually.
Wow. So that really happened? Is that legal what that company from Switzerland did?
The timing of all of this is really working out for me and feels like it is all just falling in my lap. I've been out of the loop and completely ignorant of recent announcements. I'm not sure what else I could ask for.
- The Pimax Streamer works great! I listened to it for about 2 hours today and continue to be impressed.
- The NAS drive was absolutely a breeze to add so all my ripped music is at my finger tips.
- Spotify will be going lossless later on this year so I doubt I will even get itchy for a Tidal account.
https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-02-22/five-things-to-know-about-spotify-hifi/
I must have been a good boy this year
amey01
Well-known member
Not in the audio industry pseudo science, but in the ICT industry, yes. (Just note though - you don't have to work in something to have knowledge of it) In my case, clinical ICT. So I have intimate understanding of networks, data transfer, USB operation, etc - when used for the purposes of clinical and medical ICT services such as transferring data in and out of liquid chromatography units where the difference between a 1 and a 0 could be life and death.
Not that any of what I have said is secret - the USB-IF specs are public knowledge.
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