Aeon-i discontinued - Big price drop

[cvj]

Just learned from ML sales that the Aeon-i has officially been discontinued - and the "fair trade price" policy no longer applies to this speaker.

Good news for me, since I just bought a pair of the Aeon-i s for $3,395.- and my local dealer (Magnolia) is giving me a price adjustment based on their sale price of $2,500. a pair. The dealer also said that they sold out their remaining Aeon-i s over the weekend during the sale.

Interestingly, again according to ML sales, the replacement is the Vista which is priced at $3,695. a pair (fair trade etc.). I asked the sales person what the difference is between the Aeon-i and the Vista - and he told me that there are more and smaller holes in the stator (like the Clarity) and therefore the speaker sounds better.... Also the styling is different with a smaller woofer box.

Sooo, if you have been looking for the Aeon-i s, now is the time to shop for a good deal and get this ML reference speaker for less than the "entry level" Clarity.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[attyonline]

What is fair trade policy? If this is somehow related to the old fair trade laws, it is illegal now.

 

[Reverb]

Martin Logan’s are price protected; a dealer can typically only take about 5 to 10% off the price to make the sale. In the event a speaker be discontinued that policy is void, and the dealer can price them to move.

The vista uses XStat technology as well as a panel slightly smaller both horizontally and vertically. Its basically that vantage with out a powered woofer.

 

[cvj]

What is fair trade policy? If this is somehow related to the old fair trade laws, it is illegal now.

I guess I meant the "list" price that Martin Logan sets for their dealers... which locally here is what the item is priced at minus a 5% discount. Dealer claims that they are not "allowed" to sell it for less than that.

 

[attyonline]

I guess I meant the "list" price that Martin Logan sets for their dealers... which locally here is what the item is priced at minus a 5% discount. Dealer claims that they are not "allowed" to sell it for less than that.

I have heard of this before. It is price fixing by the manufacturer and as far as I know is not legal. As I understand it, the manufacturer can regulate at what price you advertise a product for sale, but it cannot set a minimum price you can sell the product. Of course the dealer wants to sell at the highest price so his interests are not in conflict with the manufacturer. He can always claim that the company will not allow me to discount more than 5%

 

[cvj]

The vista uses XStat technology as well as a panel slightly smaller both horizontally and vertically. Its basically that vantage with out a powered woofer.

If the Vista is just a Vantage without the powered woofer, then the construction is IMHO not as sturdy as the Aeon-i. The electrostatic panel does not have the substantial side supports that the Aeon has - and I bet the speaker is going to be a lot lighter too; in which case the bass reponse will be less than the Aeon-i. (probably more like the bass reponse of the Clarity).

 

[attyonline]

If the Vista is just a Vantage without the powered woofer, then the construction is IMHO not as sturdy as the Aeon-i. The electrostatic panel does not have the substantial side supports that the Aeon has - and I bet the speaker is going to be a lot lighter too; in which case the bass reponse will be less than the Aeon-i. (probably more like the bass reponse of the Clarity).

Don't know how you can reach this conclusion without hearing the speaker

 

[cvj]

Don't know how you can reach this conclusion without hearing the speaker

The conclusion of the construction? I saw both the Vantage and the Aion-i at the dealer.

The conclusion of the lighter weight (and it's effect on the bass response) is a total (educated) guess on my part. I did say "I bet"!

However, if you look at the specs for the frequency response of the Clarity ( 46 – 22,000 Hz ± 3 dB) and compare it to the specs for the Aion (43 – 22,000 Hz ± 3 dB), you will see what I base my guess on.

 

[tsd2005]

I have heard of this before. It is price fixing by the manufacturer and as far as I know is not legal. As I understand it, the manufacturer can regulate at what price you advertise a product for sale, but it cannot set a minimum price you can sell the product. Of course the dealer wants to sell at the highest price so his interests are not in conflict with the manufacturer. He can always claim that the company will not allow me to discount more than 5%

1. I work for an authorized Martin Logan Dealer.

2. We are under CONTRACT with Martin Logan to sell their product for no less than 5% off MSRP.

The contract is fully legal. Martin Logan does not have to do business with us. Martin Logan does not have this rule to make things "bad," for buyers who are always after a deal.

Martin Logan does this to protect their product's value. Because EVERY store has to follow this rule (and Martin Logan strictly adheres to it, they use secret shoppers) you know you aren't getting ripped off by a dealer. You know everyone pays the same price for Martin Logan speakers.

This keeps the resale value higher than other brands that don't protect their value.

 

[garmtz]

However, if you look at the specs for the frequency response of the Clarity ( 46 – 22,000 Hz ± 3 dB) and compare it to the specs for the Aion (43 – 22,000 Hz ± 3 dB), you will see what I base my guess on.

Why do you compare the Clarity and Aeon? This thread is about the Aeon getting replaced by the Vista!! I had the Aeon and now have the Vantage (proper introduction soon... ) and I can say there is a HUGE difference! Not only because of the powered bass (which sounds BRILLIANT), but also because the panel sounds much more refined, detailed, transparent, dynamic, etc. The Vista WILL sound better than the Aeon.

 

[attyonline]

TSD, you obviously know nothing about price fixing legislation that prohibits collusion between a manufacturer/distributor and dealer to fix prices. Just because you have a contract does not mean the contract cannot be found to violate the public interest due to price fixing or other form of illegal collusion. If this happened with food, cars or fuel you would hear about it big time. In that context ML is small potatoes. I find your justification for this clause bizarre. Everyone should get a crummy deal so we are then equally unhappy? If my dealer is a better businessman who can offer me a better deal than yours, he is stopped from doing this by contract? If I have bought from a dealer for ten years, he can offer me no better deal than a guy that just walks in the door for the first time? Obviously,this kind of agreement discriminates against the customer. Why don't you send me a copy of your contract and I will forward it to the state attorney general for possible legal action in the event that state and/or federal law prohibits this type of contract? Could make an interesting class action law suit. But it appears that as a dealer you like an agreement that increases your profit and decreases the competitive pressure from other dealers, which is apparently enforced by the manufacturer.

 

[Khanhrad]

Even between the different Tweeter chain stores that I called prior to buying the Vantage, I get different quotes from salesmen, some told me they are not allowed to budge at all from MSRP (haha!!) due to ML "contract".

Back to the thread topic, someone recently posted a picture of the Vista, and it looks like a Vantage clone. Had I known that 3 months ago, I might have waited for the Vista. Paying almost $1500 for powered woofers seems a bit stiff. Of course, I love the sound of my Vantages now

 

[Munster]

TSD, you obviously know nothing about price fixing legislation that prohibits collusion between a manufacturer/distributor and dealer to fix prices. Just because you have a contract does not mean the contract cannot be found to violate the public interest due to price fixing or other form of illegal collusion. If this happened with food, cars or fuel you would hear about it big time. In that context ML is small potatoes. I find your justification for this clause bizarre. Everyone should get a crummy deal so we are then equally unhappy? If my dealer is a better businessman who can offer me a better deal than yours, he is stopped from doing this by contract? If I have bought from a dealer for ten years, he can offer me no better deal than a guy that just walks in the door for the first time? Obviously,this kind of agreement discriminates against the customer. Why don't you send me a copy of your contract and I will forward it to the state attorney general for possible legal action in the event that state and/or federal law prohibits this type of contract? Could make an interesting class action law suit. But it appears that as a dealer you like an agreement that increases your profit and decreases the competitive pressure from other dealers, which is apparently enforced by the manufacturer.

And what legislation would that be? Another clueless attorney.

 

[Joey_V]

Even between the different Tweeter chain stores that I called prior to buying the Vantage, I get different quotes from salesmen, some told me they are not allowed to budge at all from MSRP (haha!!) due to ML "contract".

Back to the thread topic, someone recently posted a picture of the Vista, and it looks like a Vantage clone. Had I known that 3 months ago, I might have waited for the Vista. Paying almost $1500 for powered woofers seems a bit stiff. Of course, I love the sound of my Vantages now

They may not sound the same either.... we'll have to wait and see. I remember ML Corporate telling me that it's not the same size panel..... I guess we'll play the waiting game.

 

[Dominick22]

attyonline,

What tsd2005 says, makes sense to me and I am glad ML does this. It is the same with cars/trucks regarding resale value. I am sure that you have heard people recently talking about how it is cheaper to buy a newer ford/chevy truck than it is to buy a used one recently. right? The reason is because they have so many kickbacks, refunds, and discounts right now. So what does that mean for someone who needs to sell used? They HAVE to reduce their asking price and take a hit. This can turn into a perpetuall cycle for companies and ultimatly CAN lead to bankruptcy.

Now, Take Toyota for example. They VERY RARELY discount their vehicles and I would almost risk say NEVER advertise the special discounts of their vehicles. Sounds funny to you??? Start paying attention to the commercials. Every Ford/Chevy commercial describes a great deal. Every Toyota commercial describes a great car!!

By the way, can you guess who has the highest resale in America in the auto industry? Higher than Jaguar, Mercedez, BMW, etc.! Yep--Its Toyota followed by Honda.

Obviously this is based on % of sale vs. resale and not actual dollar amount.

So, the people who now buy the discounted new ford/chevy vehicles are going to have a wakeup call as their purchase will quickly plumet in resale value faster than they can pay the principle down to break even at time of resale.
Example

Ford F-150 $30,000
Toyota Tundra $35,000

Ford sold after 2 years $22,000
Toyota sold after 2 years $30,000

Rough estimate just for visual!

Also, I have worked in vehicle sales and in 2000, a very special car came out the the manufacturer said HAD to be sold at sticker price. We were given 1 for test driving and the rest were by order only.
The manufacturer has ways around any law that you may be referring to and I have no doubt that ML has done their research!

Dominick

 

[twich54]

And what legislation would that be? Another clueless attorney.

I'll second that one !!! Thank God both my sons are engineer's

 

[tsd2005]

TSD, you obviously know nothing about price fixing legislation that prohibits collusion between a manufacturer/distributor and dealer to fix prices. Just because you have a contract does not mean the contract cannot be found to violate the public interest due to price fixing or other form of illegal collusion. If this happened with food, cars or fuel you would hear about it big time. In that context ML is small potatoes. I find your justification for this clause bizarre. Everyone should get a crummy deal so we are then equally unhappy? If my dealer is a better businessman who can offer me a better deal than yours, he is stopped from doing this by contract? If I have bought from a dealer for ten years, he can offer me no better deal than a guy that just walks in the door for the first time? Obviously,this kind of agreement discriminates against the customer. Why don't you send me a copy of your contract and I will forward it to the state attorney general for possible legal action in the event that state and/or federal law prohibits this type of contract? Could make an interesting class action law suit. But it appears that as a dealer you like an agreement that increases your profit and decreases the competitive pressure from other dealers, which is apparently enforced by the manufacturer.

Well for one it doesn't fall under "collusion," I'd suggest you look it up. ML and dealers aren't forcing the price of every speaker up in price by forcing unfair profit margins. A dealer's margin of profit is right around 40%. This is below other speaker brands who have 50% lines.

ML is protecting their products' value. You might not believe it but that is the truth. I've discussed the matter with Gayle himself at CEDIA. ML believes strongly in protecting their buyers product value.

ML could easily allow Dealers to play "lets make a deal," and would likely sell more speakers. ML gets paid the same no matter what the Dealer sells it for. So if ML were really about ripping off the consumer they'd let Dealers do anything.

Locally we have a store that sells Paradigm, and is Paradigm's number 1 seller in the nation. This store routinely has massive sales where you can get Paradigms at 20 to 25% off! They push that product hard. They tried to pick up Martin Logan and were turned down. Tweater almost lost the ML line due to not following the contract.

ML is strict, and its solely for the consumer. I know a lot of speaker lines that don't have the resale value of a ML. The strict pricing is a good reason plus great product.

Also locally we have the nation's largest "Trans-shipper," which is a store that ships units to online buyers from places like Uncle Stereo. This place ships out about 40 Denon DVD players a week. They make 3 to 5% on the deal and the online store pays for the shipping.

Now when I look up the resale values of the product lines sold by that store... I see extremely low prices. The companies all know that this store trans-ships, but they like the checks they receive more than the drop in product value.

You tell me which company is better.