2021 new gen Apple tv 4k Dolby Atmos Problems

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
Given that you are consistently seeing issues, even after swapping cables and ATV hardware, it might be worth suspecting the sink, in this case, the AVR.

If the receiving HDMI chips/firmware are hyper-sensitive to jitter and are forcing re-clocking with the sender, it can result in lag in the data stream.

Remember that HDMI is first and foremost a format engineered for video transmission, and the 2ch LPCM support is kind just there 'because' some audio support was needed. But the LPCM is highly prone to jitter, as the rest of the HDMI D/A A/D pipeline is focused on the much higher-bandwidth video stream. This is why Denon came up with DenonLink 4 to provide a separate clock signal over the CAT5 DenonLink between player and processor to eliminate jitter on the HDMI 2ch LPCM signal.

So if the problem is jitter stability, one might try to address it with something that re-clocks the signal, such as a splitter box or an active HDMI cable (such a fiber-based RUIPRO). But it could well be that a different/newer processor that is less susceptible to jitter is needed.

I recently made physical changes to the media room, and re-did the Audyssey DRC and have been testing a ton of Atmos content from all sources, and no audio glitches beyond one very short timing slip on an Apple Music Atmos track. Chain: ATV4K-2nd Gen launch day order (current firmware) --> 3' Amazon Basics HDMI cable --> Denon X3600H
If that sort of thing is a factor and its the AVR, it doesnt make sense in my case because I never had the issue when I was using my Amazon Fire Stick. It streamed Atmos just fine. Now with that stick, its plugged directly into the AVR without the need of an HDMI cable. I dont think the HDMI cable is a factor in my case or in any of ours though.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
You make some good points. My setup is ATV4k 2nd Gen --> 3' HDMI cable --> Denon X4300H. I considered the possibility that the problem was due to a ATV4k/Denon compatibility issue, and even considered connecting my ATV4k through my Sony TV thinking the TV might be able to correct any Atmos HDMI timing issues out of the ATV4k 2nd Gen. However, I put the blame on the ATV4k for several reasons. First, I never had an issue with my ATV4k 1st Gen unit in the same setup, and second, my replacement ATV4k 2nd Gen unit has an order of magnitude fewer Atmos issues. Others have had a similar experience.

I understand that the streaming Atmos signal is carried on a Dolby Digital Plus signal, but the bitrate is 2-3 times higher than straight 5.1 DD+, which could make it more prone to jitter or other HDMI timing issues, especially when carried alongside a higher bitrate DV stream. If I connect my ATV4k through my TV, at the current rate I am noticing Atmos issues it may take several months until I can say the problem is fixed with any degree of confidence. For now, I may update my ATV4k to the latest tvOS, and spend more time with my TV's AndroidTV apps that support both DV and Atmos.
Im still running on the last OS too and havent updated. I stopped updates on apps too as well. Have you updated apps? Let us know how things go if you update all of the software. Id like to know. Right now Im not having huge problems and am scared if I update everything then I will have big problems once again. Im coming up on 1 year having the APTV4k too, so my warrenty will soon be up.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
Is there any way to stop the frequent update nag screens? I assume not, because it's Apple.

If the Atmos problem gets much worse, I can always swap with my Gen 1 ATV4k (but keep the Gen 2 remote). I also have the AndroidTV apps in my Sony TV that support DV and Atmos, and I believe the new Roku also now supports LLDV and Atmos. So I have a plan B, C, and D if the new tvOS is a lot worse. One advantage of the Atmos problem getting worse is I will be able to tell if Apple eventually fixes the problem. I can dream, can't I?
LOL, dare to dream! Its almost comical at this point how they havent taken care of the issue. Its not as if making to run correctly is that tough. If Amazon has done it, then Apple should be able to. Has anyone else had Atmos problems like this on other devices?
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
So, on with Netflix support (not recommended lol). After 45+ min, I finally convinced the support rep to escalate. Took 4-5 times before I convinced her I was not having a problem with dubbed titles lol. Then had to explain Atmos in simple terms (a few times) while a rooster in the background announces himself every 90 seconds lol. About 30 min into the call she asked me to try restarting the AppleTV lol. Anyway, still fairly convinced the problem is with Apple, but maybe this results in Netflix disclosing the actual root cause, if known, or offering other helpful info. Still on the line providing additional details for the escalation; will report back any responses from Netflix. Oh, and she just asked what speakers I'm using lol
That is so funny! I too have talked to the lady with roosters in the background! I asked her about it once and she said something that made it sound like shes not the only one that has roosters, other ladies do too. i dont know whtat the heck is up with that! I laugh my ass off every time I hear that on the phone with them. I laughed with the lady the last time, she was nice and laughed with me.

I too am convinced that its mostly Apple's issue since the problem also occurs for me on the Apple tv + service. It also never happened watching HBO + in atmos on my Amazon Fire stick 4k. At the time I was using it, the Amazon did not have Atmos on Netflix. Ive not checked to see if Amazon fire stick supports Netflix Atmos yet. I need to go down in the basement and check it out. The setup in the basement is Amazon Firestick 4k direct to my older Marantz 7.1 receiver.
 

IraG

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
80
Reaction score
80
Location
Colorado
Im still running on the last OS too and havent updated. I stopped updates on apps too as well. Have you updated apps? Let us know how things go if you update all of the software. Id like to know. Right now Im not having huge problems and am scared if I update everything then I will have big problems once again. Im coming up on 1 year having the APTV4k too, so my warrenty will soon be up.
I am still on tvOS 14.7 and I let the apps update, since I believe it is a tvOS or hardware problem. I am thinking that if the latest tvOS makes the issue much worse, then swapping with the Gen 1 ATV4k will not give me any visibility into Apple fixing the problem unless I swap it back to my basement setup, since the family room has a Samsung TV (no DV) and only a stereo speaker setup (no Atmos). I wonder if two ATV's coexist on the same setup without conflict with the remotes. I suppose I could just unplug the AC power from one of them.
 

IraG

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
80
Reaction score
80
Location
Colorado
That is so funny! I too have talked to the lady with roosters in the background! I asked her about it once and she said something that made it sound like shes not the only one that has roosters, other ladies do too. i dont know whtat the heck is up with that! I laugh my ass off every time I hear that on the phone with them. I laughed with the lady the last time, she was nice and laughed with me.

I too am convinced that its mostly Apple's issue since the problem also occurs for me on the Apple tv + service. It also never happened watching HBO + in atmos on my Amazon Fire stick 4k. At the time I was using it, the Amazon did not have Atmos on Netflix. Ive not checked to see if Amazon fire stick supports Netflix Atmos yet. I need to go down in the basement and check it out. The setup in the basement is Amazon Firestick 4k direct to my older Marantz 7.1 receiver.
It is likely phone support from the Philippines, where many households keep chickens.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
I am still on tvOS 14.7 and I let the apps update, since I believe it is a tvOS or hardware problem. I am thinking that if the latest tvOS makes the issue much worse, then swapping with the Gen 1 ATV4k will not give me any visibility into Apple fixing the problem unless I swap it back to my basement setup, since the family room has a Samsung TV (no DV) and only a stereo speaker setup (no Atmos). I wonder if two ATV's coexist on the same setup without conflict with the remotes. I suppose I could just unplug the AC power from one of them.
Part of me worries that if we let the apps update but not the OS that there might be some compatibility issues. Thats why I shut my app updates down too. I didnt do that right away though, and a few updates on apps might have slipped through. I have no way to find out that I am aware of.
 

IraG

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
80
Reaction score
80
Location
Colorado
Part of me worries that if we let the apps update but not the OS that there might be some compatibility issues. Thats why I shut my app updates down too. I didnt do that right away though, and a few updates on apps might have slipped through. I have no way to find out that I am aware of.
I'm having Atmos problems very rarely now, and I let the apps update while still on tvOS 14.7. I think you should be fine letting the apps update.
 

IraG

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
80
Reaction score
80
Location
Colorado
Updating to tvOS 15.2 made the Atmos issues much more frequent, as I half expected. I realized I can't get Atmos if I connect the ATV4k through my TV due to the lack of bitstreaming. The LPCM/MAT 2.0 that the ATV4k puts out will only give me stereo through my TV's ARC, unless I switch the ATV4k to the 5.1 audio format, in which case the ATV4k re-encodes the audio to 5.1 and my Denon simulates the height channels.

I will reconnect my Gen 1 ATV4k and test the Gen 2 after each tvOS update. This brings back my feelings for Apple that I had when Apple didn't allow us to organize our apps into folders, or allow stereo over Bluetooth (and their blatant lies that stereo Bluetooth would drain the battery too fast). I don't see myself ever buying another ATV if this Gen 2 Atmos issue isn't fixed.
 

Dragon79

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
5
I'm hanging on here for some updates. I have the same issues with Dolby Atmos. I have a JVC XP-EXT1 connected and have randomly some sound dropouts.
 

barjohn

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
Reaction score
25
Location
Sarasota Florida
As an interesting aside on the ATV4K, I have both Gen1 & 2, when I use airplay to connect to my speakers and run REW, when using the ATV4K and using a tone timing, the tone fails to emanate so the measure fails. If I run it to the Roku, it works. I have no idea why. Both of my ATV4Ks are updated to 15.3 which appears to be a little faster than 15.2 when playing back sound but it is still not right. I am disappointed that Apple has not made any significant improvements on the audio playback of this device.

I wish I could play Apple Music through the Roku (Maybe Roku has an app and I haven't seen it).
 

IEnjoyOLED

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
47
Reaction score
27
I have had an issue with delayed audio on the ATV, but have lived with it; it takes a few seconds for sound to come when starting up a video or audio selection. Yesterday, I got a few pops during playback and also intermittent audio dropouts.

I can’t even remember why I got an ATV when my Roku Ultra was working fine; I recall some streaming option that was supposed to be better on the ATV. I think today I’ll select the Roku on my AVR and see if things are better.

What a cluster.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
Updating to tvOS 15.2 made the Atmos issues much more frequent, as I half expected. I realized I can't get Atmos if I connect the ATV4k through my TV due to the lack of bitstreaming. The LPCM/MAT 2.0 that the ATV4k puts out will only give me stereo through my TV's ARC, unless I switch the ATV4k to the 5.1 audio format, in which case the ATV4k re-encodes the audio to 5.1 and my Denon simulates the height channels.

I will reconnect my Gen 1 ATV4k and test the Gen 2 after each tvOS update. This brings back my feelings for Apple that I had when Apple didn't allow us to organize our apps into folders, or allow stereo over Bluetooth (and their blatant lies that stereo Bluetooth would drain the battery too fast). I don't see myself ever buying another ATV if this Gen 2 Atmos issue isn't fixed.
Thank you for the report. I won't be updating my OS! I'm still on the OS that's several stages old and it works ok for Atmos. I will continue to do that until I hear good things on here about the new updates. Such a shame they can't get this right. They NEED to just drop Atmos altogether if they can't support it. As far as I'm concerned, it is false advertising to claim the Apple tv4k 2nd gen supports Atmos. The public has no idea when they buy one, and then find out later.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
As an interesting aside on the ATV4K, I have both Gen1 & 2, when I use airplay to connect to my speakers and run REW, when using the ATV4K and using a tone timing, the tone fails to emanate so the measure fails. If I run it to the Roku, it works. I have no idea why. Both of my ATV4Ks are updated to 15.3 which appears to be a little faster than 15.2 when playing back sound but it is still not right. I am disappointed that Apple has not made any significant improvements on the audio playback of this device.

I wish I could play Apple Music through the Roku (Maybe Roku has an app and I haven't seen it).
So the latest is 15.3?

Sonos supports playing apple music. I use it.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
358
Location
Ohio
I have had an issue with delayed audio on the ATV, but have lived with it; it takes a few seconds for sound to come when starting up a video or audio selection. Yesterday, I got a few pops during playback and also intermittent audio dropouts.

I can’t even remember why I got an ATV when my Roku Ultra was working fine; I recall some streaming option that was supposed to be better on the ATV. I think today I’ll select the Roku on my AVR and see if things are better.

What a cluster.
Does Roku support Atmos on Netflix? That's the big reason I bought Apple. Amazon Firestick didn't support Atmos on Netflix.
 
Top