Conflict of interest?

[Gordon Gray]

Howdy all,

For background purposes, you may want to review my thread in the "Main Discussion Forum" regarding my observations about a certain product, said product being the Marigo "dots" entitled "Call me crazy ...", and the posts thereof.

I would very much like your input on the following question?

Should a manufacturer or their reps have the opportunity to use this forum to discredit other competing products and claim that those who have a different perspective are not reality based, said basis being anchored in their self interests to market and sell their product?

GG

 

[jtwrace]

Howdy all,

For background purposes, you may want to review my thread in the "Main Discussion Forum" regarding my observations about a certain product, said product being the Marigo "dots" entitled "Call me crazy ...", and the posts thereof.

I would very much like your input on the following question?

Should a manufacturer or their reps have the opportunity to use this forum to discredit other competing products and claim that those who have a different perspective are not reality based, said basis being anchored in their self interests to market and sell their product?

GG

If TomDac will allow it...then yes. IMO I don't think that manufacturers or their reps should discredit a product on this forum or anywhere else. I find that dirty. I think an explanation on why theirs works is just fine. Let the consumer try it if they are so confident. As I've mentioned on this forum before, I do believe that all these owners that come on here and promote their businesses should dig in the pocket and help the forum that helps them. NOTHING is free. This site costs money to ramble on like this...

 

[twich54]

Gordon, Good evening, here's my take and remember I'm only a Moderator, this is Tom's "Nut House" !

1) IMO, you have blown this a bit out of proportion for 'tweeks' as we know them can insight as much contoversy as cable disussion. God knows if you had got some of those 'magic clocks' and proclaimed great things I would have been one of the first to say you were nuts ! LOL !

2) While subjective, when one puts it up on the forum it IS OPEN for discussion, rebuttal, opposite opinion, etc.

3) FWIW, Ethan apparently see's things more 'Black & White" than you do, big whop !

4) Personaly, and I think MANY will back me on this, and that is so many tweeks that exist at $$ amounts that are absurd can EASILY be replicated for many $$ less with common commodities available to all. This is NEVER more true than in the area of acoustical treatments. Don't believe me.......ask Jonathan !

5) With regards to the manufacture thing, I didn't see where Ethan was really trying to "sell his wares" in this discussion, but with respect to your take on mfg protocol, I agree.

Lastly........I don't doubt for one minute that your "dots" have provided a sonic improvement for your room !

 

[TomDac]

Hi All,

Ethan's posts in that thread seemed to be nothing more than him sharing his knowledge and experience and participating in a thread that he was invited to respond to. I didn't get the feeling that he was trying to sell us any of his products. Yeah, he did seem to ruffle a few feathers and maybe he owes GG an apology..

If anyone else feels that Ethan was trying to drum up business in that thread, ask yourself this question:

If he was contributing sponsor of the site, would that change the way you felt about his responses in that thread?

My guess is you would still be thinking that he's here to sell something and wary of his advice because of your feelings that he's in here for personal gain.

IMHO, the guy sells tube traps and has published how to build your own on the cheap... He's done many years of research, built recording studios and has written quite alot about the this kind of stuff, so in my eyes, he's a bit of an expert.

I gathered this from his website: http://www.ethanwiner.com/

Let's discuss further... in a respectful and courteous manner of course..

And GG... If you bought those "magic dots" and you noticed a difference, then that is all that matters, right? ROCK ON!! :rocker:

 

[C.A.P]

You all know how I feel .

NO FREE LUNCH !

 

[amey01]

I think it's nice to hear from everyone. There is no blatant selling going on. Just a mixing pot of opinions. It's all good!

That said, there is clear potential to overstep the line (and there would be a serious conflict of interest if this were to happen) so it needs to be monitored, but I don't think any of these lines have ever been crossed at any stage by any one since I've been frequenting here.

 

[Ethan Winer]

I didn't see where Ethan was really trying to "sell his wares" in this discussion

Right, my only interest is factual information. And when I chime in on threads not about acoustics I am speaking for myself, not my company. Just to make the point that I'm not here to sell stuff, I changed my sig to remove my company affiliation.

I can understand why people like GG are irritated by posts like mine. I always remain calm and patiently explain the facts as I see them, but they see it as a personal attack. So then they attack me, call me names, and even say stuff like "I'll tell all my friends not to buy your products." Sheesh.

If GG refused to buy anything from a company whose principals and engineers don't accept that tiny magic dots can affect room acoustics, that leaves a mighty small list of remaining vendors. I know a lot of EEs, and not one of them believes in speaker wire or magic dots or any other such tweaks.

"Everyone understands and accepts that the placebo effect is real, but for some reason audiophiles don't think it ever happens to them."

--Ethan

 

[JonFo]

I for one really appreciate people like Ethan sharing their knowledge on forums. Too often manufacturers are doing nothing more than packaging their marketing mantras, but Ethan provides actual data and is not constantly promoting his products.

He clearly has a point of view, and people may or may not agree with it, but he's always civil, and never engages in ad-hominem attacks.

His educational posts on room acoustics sciences have been very valuable, and he even shares information that helps DIY’ers like me, even at the cost of additional sales of his own products.

This site would be a lot poorer without his posts IMHO.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dave,

Thank you for your measured observations.

I'm glad you agree that the issue of manufacturer integrity is a valid question which, in this particular case, is a razor thin line.

It's fine to respectfully disagree with one's observation recognizing the obvious caveat that everyone's perspective is, by definition, personal.

However, when an individual, who happens to represent a product, claims that another individual who doesn't use his product lives in a fantasy world, is clearly acting, IMHO, in a totally unprofessional, disrespectful, and condescending manner. And yes, I believe that individual has crossed that line and I will react to that.

Absent my personal feelings, I hope to see other members input on the conflict of interest question.

I agree with Tom that an apology is totally appropriate.

Gordon

 

[Horchem1972]

Can't we just agree to disagree

He said this,he said that.Why can't you both aree to just disagree.You feel like you deserve an apology and he does also.Ethan stated that he believes that you wanted to hear a differance,but he did not call you a nut case.Gordon,you have called into question Ethan's integretity by stating he has an agenda.That agenda is to sell his products, which I have not seen.I respect both of your opinions because you seem like intelligent individuals.This is getting blown way out of hand,and is getting ugly.Hopefully both of you will agree to disagree and apologize.Anything short of measuring the room with and without the dots there is no way to know if they make a differance.In the end it is your money and you have a right to do what you want.I very respectfully request you to drop it.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Fully intend to. Thanks for your input.

GG