System #331 (Aerius, Cinema)

Name: Rob Musquetier
Place: Limmen
Country: The Netherlands
Watchdog: Pluk ;-)

Here my set-up:

Speakers:
4x Aerius (2x 2001 model used for front, 2x 1997 model used for rear)
1x Cinema (under the TV)
1x Visaton TIW 300 used for sub-woofer (in the right corner)

Amplifiers:
1x Velleman K8010 (mono block for center channel, based on 4x KT88 tubes)
1x Velleman K4040 (stereo amp for left & right front mid and high, based on 8x EL34 tubes)
1x Sony STR-DB930 5.1 surround receiver, (90W per channel) used as pre-amp and low front L & R
1x quad stereo amplifier used for sub-woofer

Other stuff:
Samsung Blu-Ray player
Humax digital TV receiver/recorder
MS XBox 360


I'm a ML owner since I bought the front 2001 Aerius setup new quickly followed by the Cinema. Later I bought the rear 1997 Aeriuses 2nd hand. they were is great shape!

Every time I sit down and enjoy the setup, preferably via a unplugged DVD, I'm amazed by the clarity of the speakers. Especially bi-wiring the front L&R via separate amplifiers (transistor low, tubes high) made a hugh difference in sound quality, a setup I can highly recommend!!

Rob, nice to see you HT set-up, with that steering wheeling positioned in the middle you really have re-defined how one 'drives their Logans' !!!

I know what you mean by "opening up" of the sound with tubes and the Aerius.

Today as an experiment I added an additional K8010 Velleman tube mono-block amp. which I had as a spare for the center channel instead of the Quad 405 for the sub-woofer. That made a huge difference, much lower rubbles in my belly while listening to all kinds of musics and movies...


regards,
Rob.

I do not see a dedicated cd player or TT in your system ?I think with your other equipment you could really benefit if you added one. I also like the sound of tubes with my Logans

FISH_MAN said:

I do not see a dedicated cd player or TT in your system ?I think with you other equipment you could really benefit if you added one.

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The Sony has a pretty good DAC and I hook up the Blu-Ray player via glass fiber so I don't see the point of buying a dedicated CD player. Digital = digital, only the DAC could be sligtly improved... I rather put the available money in other components (or other hobbies)...

Yesterday I've modded my front Aeriuses with ClarityCap (SA and ESA) caps (2x 10uF, 2x 22uF and 2x 33uF) but it didn't make much difference in my opinion ;-(

Conclusion: These speakers are already fantastic as they are delivered by the factory!!!

regards,
Rob.

RoboRob said:

Yesterday I've modded my front Aeriuses with ClarityCap (SA and ESA) caps (2x 10uF, 2x 22uF and 2x 33uF) but it didn't make much difference in my opinion ;-(

Click to expand...

Give it some time. When I modded my DAC with Black Gate caps, there was no perceivable difference for the first few weeks. Then again, when I modded my SL3 with one Black Gate cap, it made no difference at all. Time will tell.

RoboRob said:

The Sony has a pretty good DAC and I hook up the Blu-Ray player via glass fiber so I don't see the point of buying a dedicated CD player. Digital = digital, only the DAC could be sligtly improved... I rather put the available money in other components (or other hobbies)...

Click to expand...

I would have to disagree with your statement. With a high-end CD player you don’t just get a much improved DAC but also the transport section often is much better as well as the chassis itself is much more robust which equates to a less mechanical vibration upon the platter. I would bet anything if you put your Sony/Blu-Ray player up against a high-end CD player it would be no match in play back performance especially if it’s a high-end SACD player. Just my 2 cents... :music:

Audioseduction said:

I would have to disagree with your statement. With a high-end CD player you don’t just get a much improved DAC but also the transport section often is much better as well as the chassis itself is much more robust which equates to a less mechanical vibration upon the platter. I would bet anything if you put your Sony/Blu-Ray player up against a high-end CD player it would be no match in play back performance especially if it’s a high-end SACD player. Just my 2 cents... :music:

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Well today we are going to test this. A colleague is going to bring his SACD player (I don't know brand/type yet but I'll let you know) to experiment if this makes a mayor difference. I'll compare the DVD audio and Blu-Ray audio formats against the SACD format to figure out if this makes much/any difference.

Another test we will do is using a high end DAC and compare it against the Sony amplifiers build in DAC. also here I'm curious what the improvement (if any) will be!!!

I'll keep you all posted...

regards,
Rob.

Ok, today we did some experiments:

1) used a Cambridge Audio DAC magic to compare the build-in DAC of the Sony amp. with this dedicated DAC. The Cambridge Audio DAC magic only support digital to 2 channel (stereo) convertion so we only compared this mode on the Sony amp. I hooked the Sony via the fiber output on the Blu-Ray player and the Cambridge via the digital coax output of the Blu-Ray into the analog line-in input on the Sony (to by-pass its DAC). The switched between the two channels to easy compare the signals.
Conclusion: both DAC's produce a similar quality, nearly equal (the Cambridge a little lower in output level). To be honest although hardly noticeble I liked my Sony slightly better (but very marginal).

2) We hooked up the Denon DVD-A11 to the system using the Sony's DAC. This again produced an equally nice audio picture as the Samsung Blu-Ray setup using my reference audio DVD's: The Eagles (Hell Freezes Over) and the Corrs (Unplugged). Again no noticable differences in sound quality, dynamics or anything else.

Unfortunately when we inserted a SACD disc the player refused to play it. Also loading other SACD discs didn't produce any results so I can't make a call on the sound quality of SACD versus DVD audio (or Blu-Ray audio) discs. I was a bit disappointed about this but we could not solve the problem (hardware failure).

We did compare playing normal stereo CD's and again no noticeable differences between the Denon and the Samsung Blu-Ray.

So I'm still convinced. If you want to spend money on your setup invest in speakers and high quality amplifiers. Don't bother in buying fancy CD/DVD/Blu-Ray players costing more then 500 euro's.

Personally I believe about half of your money spend should go into speakers, one third into your amplifiers and the last one sixth in other stuff (CD/Blu-Ray). Do make sure somewhere in this setup you have a decent DAC capable of producing formats ranging from CD to Blu-Ray/SACD audio.

regards,
Rob.

Bernard said:

Give it some time. When I modded my DAC with Black Gate caps, there was no perceivable difference for the first few weeks. Then again, when I modded my SL3 with one Black Gate cap, it made no difference at all. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Hi Bernard,

today I got the impression the two modded Aeriuses indeed sounded a bit better then I'm used to. I'm puzzled. I wouldn't expect capacitors need to be broken in???


regards,
Rob.

RoboRob said:

Ok, today we did some experiments:

Click to expand...

I've read that there are only a half dozen transports made, and nearly all but the most exotic players use them. The main difference being in the supporting electronics to process the information. If true, then this may support your recent listening experience.

Personally I believe about half of your money spend should go into speakers, one third into your amplifiers and the last one sixth in other stuff (CD/Blu-Ray). Do make sure somewhere in this setup you have a decent DAC capable of producing formats ranging from CD to Blu-Ray/SACD audio.

Click to expand...

The Aerius is such a good (demanding/rewarding) speaker that I think that ratio should be expressed as equal parts for source, amplification, wires/interconnects and cost of speaker price new.

Twelve years ago or so Fi magazine gave away a sweepstakes Aerius i based system which was close to equal parts. They used a CD player with variable output, a Audio Research amp and I think Nordost speaker wires/Interconnects. Everything was about 2K, so about 6k total.

RoboRob said:

Hi Bernard,

today I got the impression the two modded Aeriuses indeed sounded a bit better then I'm used to. I'm puzzled. I wouldn't expect capacitors need to be broken in???


regards,
Rob.

Click to expand...

Most of the better film caps need 500 hours to sound their best.

Rob,

I'm not surprise with your findings with play back performance in your comparison between the components as neither components I consider as High-End audiophile grade equipment. A DAC which cost just over $500 and a Universal player that’s sub $1000. If you had one of these CD players “Wadia, Esoteric, Meridian EMM Labs” to compare to they would be the victor hands down!

Audioseduction said:

comparison between the components as neither components I consider as High-End audiophile grade equipment.

Click to expand...

I agree with this statement.

About 12 years ago in my home within the same week I was able to compare my old Yamaha CD (Mash-1) changer with a Rega Planet (first gen), a slight improvement but I was not digging into my pockets for the upgrade. I've heard more and better differences between interconnects to tell the truth. I was then able to audition a McIntosh MCD009 which was based on a quality Pioneer drive and Wadia electronics. The sound differences and jump in quality especially in the sound stage was prominent.

I still have the McIntosh and feel no need to upgrade.

Ok, but the Denon A11 also didn't proof any improvement (retail price in 2006 > 3000 euro's) compared with the 2008 Samsung Blu-Ray. You would expect some improvements when components in the chain are swapped...

greetings,
Rob.