not yet a ML owner... but i will...but first....

Hello all,

My name is Kostas, I am from Greece and this is my first post in this forum.

First off all, I have to warn you that my skills in English language are limited and I beg for your pardon for any spelling mistakes.

I am not a ML owner but, as it seems, this is going to change.

Before a few months I have decided to upgrade my Hi-Fi system.

The first step was to replace my analogue source. I gave as a gift to a good friend my 10 years old Project RPM 4 turntable, and after a lot of search I bought the following set:
• Turntable: Clearaudio Performance
• Tone arm: Clearaudio Satisfy Carbon (direct wired)
• Cartridge: Clearaudio Maestro
• Phone Stage: Clearaudio Smart Phone

The second step will be the replacement of my 10 years old Chario T100 Reference loudspeakers.

I went to many local dealers and I heard even more loudspeakers.
I have found some of them very good, some other not to good and finally I have decided to buy a B&W 804S ( a safe and reasonable choice).
I went the previous Saturday to the dealer with the cash in my pocket in order to buy the B&W but when I get in the place, I saw that he has brought a pair of ML Vista.

The first impression was «Wow, what a design. This is the most beautiful loudspeaker I have ever seen» and I asked him if it was possible to hear them.
And then everything has changed inside me.
Although I have found B&W 804 better than ML Vista in many areas, I felt in love with the sound of ML.
I said to myself «ok Kosta, be cool, maybe it is just the first impression, maybe it is the specific kind of music, maybe it is your mood». That’s why I said good night to the dealer and went home.
Yesterday, after a hard day in work, I went again to the dealer with my own CDs with various kinds of music. The conclusion was the same «Although I have found B&W 804 better than ML Vista in many areas, I felt in love with the sound of ML»

Ok, what is going on? Where is the trap? Is this normal or should I visit a doctor? Do you thing that the beautiful design of ML makes me thing that plays better than B&W? Please advice!!!

The only reason I didn’t buy it, was this sentence of the dealer “This loudspeakers needs a lot of room and a great distance from the wall”

Unfortunately my room is not big. In fact it is a small room. I have attached a draw of my room and a photo.

What do you thing? Is it truly a small room for these speakers?
Please advice!!!

Thanks

Welcome Costa,
No need to worry about your English. It is much better than most all of are at speaking Greek and better than some of us as speaking English.

No need to see a doctor, you will just never be happy with out a set of Logans. They are quite intoxicating from the first time you hear them.

I think your room will work fine. What the dealer says is more or less accurate. The more space they have the better they will sound. You will need some acoustical treatments in the room but that should not be a problem. It looks as though you could try setting up the room the long way also to give some more space behind the speakers and possibly not be sitting against the back wall.
Room changes generally are overseen by a significant other in the house and sometimes it takes a bit of begging and pleading.

Will the dealer allow you to demo them in your room? It would make it easier for you to feel OK with the purchase but even if not I think you can get some wonderful results in the space you have with them.

Others will have suggestions for you also I am sure.

Hi Kosta,
don't be afraid to ask here your questions, this is a very friendly and knowledgeable forum...
I would like to pinpoint that in order to get the best from your Vista you will have to take them 1.5meters (5foot) from the front wall. Or you will have to treat the wall in order to absorb the rear wave. Many threads here with tons of info...
That's my only problem with my Purity, they working great only in the center of my living room! From your picture I can see that you will use your livingroom, so think about it!
kalosirthes (welcome)
Nikos

Hi Kosta,
The 5 foot off the back wall suggestion given to you is correct for optimum sound. If you keep your couch ( listening seat ) against the wall, you will definately need some absorbtion - acoustic panels there right on the wall behind the couch.If you could do the long wall postioning as suggested, possibly the speakers could be out more and you could have the couch off the back wall a bit.
I think you have the same disease now that we all have for the Martin Logans. Keep us posted as to what speaker you buy. Bet you go back for another listen.
Cheers, Greg

kkaragian said:

Hello all,

but when I get in the place, I saw that he has brought a pair of ML Vista.

The first impression was «Wow, what a design. This is the most beautiful loudspeaker I have ever seen» and I asked him if it was possible to hear them.
And then everything has changed inside me.
Although I have found B&W 804 better than ML Vista in many areas, I felt in love with the sound of ML.

Click to expand...

Hi Kosta. Welcome aboard. I just loved reading your first impression of seeing MLs and then hearing them.

That "open" and "airy" sound they produce is so different from conventional loudspeakers and once you're hooked, there will be no going back.

As for the placement, I think 5 feet is a little extreme. 3 feet is more like the minimum distance away from the rear wall... make sure to measure that from the front of the speaker, not the back cabinet of the woofer. Remember that the electrostatic panel produces sound from both the front and back, so you must do what you can to prevent or minimize the sound waves coming from the back of the speaker (called the "rear wave") from interacting with the front sound waves.

The easiest way to do this is to make sure the speakers are not close to any walls, but that is not always practical, so sound absorbing materials behind the speaker can be used to help there... Anything to help break up and disperse those sound waves will be good.

Glad to have you here!

Tom.

PS.. I change the title of this thread for ya!

I'd bet Vista or Vantage would work great in your room...

Best of luck.

Any chance you are a member of the ACA? If so, how are those guys doing? They took their forum down a while ago...

I would say they would be just fine if positioned 3 feet from panel to front wall and install some acoustic absorbing panels behind each speaker like I did. With the acoustic panels in place your speakers will sound if they were 5 feet from the wall because of the acoustic panels absorbing a good amount of the rear wave not allowing it to interfear with the forward sound wave. Good luck with your decision.

I'll also add that if the dealer has just received these speakers, then they aren't "broken in" yet, which means that they will begin to sound even better after they've been used for a week or two.

tonepub said:

Any chance you are a member of the ACA? If so, how are those guys doing? They took their forum down a while ago...

Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,
sad story...
they are trying to solve "internal" problems...
check this
Nikos

I have to thank all of you for yours answers. Really I appreciate this.

I am afraid that it is impossible to change the set up of the room in the long way for many reasons.
Also I believe it is almost impossible to borrow the speakers from the dealer for a “test drive”. Here in Greece, only regular customers or friends of the dealers have this privilege. But I will try.

Tom said “... Anything to help break up and disperse those sound waves will be good”
I wonder if instead of acoustic panels (don’t forget this room is my living room) I could used a painting behind each speaker and behind the couch or frames with photos, or a combination of them.

Also I wonder if I could use my amplifier (Vincent http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/tubeline/sv-236mk.html) to drive ML Vista (for a period of a year more or less) or I have to replace it ASAP?
The second scenario could be a problem because my budget will be exceeded.

Hello to all !

My name is Ntinos, and I am also from Greece, and Kostas (kkaragian) covers me already with his introduction, related to (our) English language.

Nikos introduced me to your nice forum accidentally to be honest, during our "conversation" in a Greek Audio forum.

I will try to describe what happened to me, and please accept my apologies in advance if my post go will be too long....

A month or so ago we (my wife & I) decided to set up a stereo system to our lining room. (2 speakers, an amplifier and a cd player).

I knew it from that first place, that the only convenient position (at least) for the speakers, was not good at all. (one speaker very close to the side wall, there was a really big window behind, and just one foot in front there is the side of our sofa) (photos 1 & 2).
No chance for placement any where else (photo 3).

I was trying (luckily not very hard ) a type of speakers, that are easy to their positioning, such as sealed box, or without firing port in the back.

A couple of days ago, I came across with a pair of Vista.....
What happened to Kostas, its happened to me...But, I was not lucky, as the place was not good at all, especially for MLs.

Now what?



...to be continued... (soon)

I forgot the photos

I wanted the Vista badly...
No way to place them correctly (at least accepted)....
Nikos, tried to convince me to move them every time we want to listen music ...

I had to do something. I could no say, "never mind, forget any ML".

So, I proceeded to the "plan B" (actually, I am on the way)

In my home, I have a dedicated HT room... (photos 1&3)
The majority of our free hours are spend in this place (listening music, watching movies, or TV)
In this room I have 7 elac BS244 (which btw are verey very good). And they have perfect advantage for my case.....
As they are bookshelf type they are not demanding for their placement.

...to be continued...

I don't know whether you are thinking what I am thinking...:devil:

The position of main L&R in this room is ideal for a pair of MLs. There is at least 3 feet from the rear wall, 3 feet from both side walls, soft (ok partially) surfaces behind, and the right listening position.

In the forthcoming days I will be a happy ML vista owner :music:

However, the issue that I have to solve is their amplification.
I do not know if I will create any problem to this forum if I ask from you to give me your opinions from your experience you have with this issue, so if it is ok, please let me know (I have 2-3 different combination)

Another thing that I would like from you, again bazed on you knowledge & experience is to suggest me which ML could be the right one to use it as a center speaker with Vista.

Thank you for you time, and I hope to "see" you soon.

PS @ Kostas. There is no such a doctor in Greece any more. The last one is a ML owner already

....and apologies to Kostas for ruing his thread :bowdown:

Your Vincent hybrid integrated amp will work fine with ML Vista or Vantage speakers.

• Power RMS/8 Ohm: 2x 150W, Power RMS/4 Ohm: 2x 250W
• Class A/8 Ohm: 2 x 10W, T. H. D.: < 0.1 % (1 kHz, 1 Watt)

I haven't owned this brand but I have seen and heard it at my local dealer. It is very attractive and sounded nice and very reasonably priced. Certainly an excellent value.

I've used artificial trees trees behind the speakers for a more aesthetic approach for dispersion. I find that bass traps also helped improve my room acoustics. Soft furniture, sofas, carpeting, curtains all help to tame the sonic reflections and excessive bass nodes and of course are visually pleasing and functional in a listening room.

Welcome to the forum. We have shown the video about the Greek ACA at my local audio listening society here in Tampa, Florida and enjoyed it immensely. For the rest of you, if you haven't seen their video I highly recommend you check it out. It is the best documentary about audiophiles ever made.

GREEK AUDIOPHILES RULE!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs :bowdown:

Glad to see you guys here As im sure everyone here will attest, there is nothing like the sound a ML will give you, ive owned several pairs allready, and amd upgrading to a bigger pair soon, i'll never own another speaker other than a ML. Build quality is awsome, and there customer service, / support is the best in the business.

One question please

For a pair of vista, which from the following:

Parasound halo A21
Parasound 2250
Usher R1.5
Gamut 200

Thanks in advance !

kkaragian said:

The only reason I didn’t buy it, was this sentence of the dealer “This loudspeakers needs a lot of room and a great distance from the wall”

Click to expand...

I have a small room too.

Front face of my M/L Aerius speakers are 28 inches = 71.12 centimeters to the wall behind them.

Center to center the speakers are only 49 inches = 124.46 centimeters apart.

I have a large TV in between them and I think it still sounds great.

Of course like others have said you will have to play with acoustic materials and other things to get the most out of them.