Vertical Bi-amp Sequel II's

I'm interested in vertical bi-amping a pair of Sequel II's. I currently have a Sony TA-N9000ES amplifier and a Sony TA-E9000ES pre-amplifier. Am considering purchase of a second Sony TA-N9000ES amplifier to complete the bi-amp configuration.

After reading about how to bi-amp the speakers, connections from the speakers to the amplifiers seem pretty straight forward. What I am unsure about is how to connect the two amps to the pre-amp. Below are links to information on each of the components:

TA-N9000ES Amplifier:

http://home.online.no/~espen-b/ta-e9000es/manuals/TA-N9000ES.pdf

TA-E9000ES Pre-Amplifier:

http://home.online.no/~espen-b/ta-e9000es/manuals/TA-E9000ES.pdf

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

vertical bi-amping of Sequel lls

Here's what I did. Actually I went a furthur in the amping thing. Mine are what I call tri-amped but we can concentrate on "bi-amping" first.
The connections between your pre-outs and amplifiers. I'm assuming that your preamp only has a left output and a right output. Same as mine. What I did was install a pair of male-to female rca "Y" jacks from the preamplifier outputs to my amps. I'm thinking that a configuration like this probably depends on a preamplifier's output voltage which I'm pretty sure your is enough cause mine was and it's merely a Carver CT-6.
This worked so well in the bi-amping for the Sequels lls that I just HAD to take it a step furthur and tri-amp my Sequels. I purchased another amplifier same the one I was driving the top panels of the MLs with and was able to switch both of them (or bridge them) into mono. One left and one right channel. Still from the same "Y" jacks from the pre-amp. A third slightly more powerful amp is still run in stereo driving the woofers. I guess you could say that my theory is that anything worth doing is worth overdoing. That's just me. You know, bi-amping sounded so awesome that I couldn't rest until I had experimented with this idea. At least in my set-up it's really added an extra dimensionality to it all.
ry the male rca to double female rca jacks to left and right channels of your preamp.
I hope this works out for you. If it does, you'll love it.

Thanks sluggo. Didn't think it would be as simple as a "Y" connector. Thought I'd have to get some sort of new "black box" to interface. If it's that simple, I guess I'm on my way!

Is this the kind of "Y" connector you're talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-RCA-Sp.../B000V1JUJU/ref=pd_cp_e_1/188-8987705-4063839

Thanks!!!

It should work marvelously... It did for me: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6228

~VDR

Y rca for bi-amping

Yeah. Those should work okay. Actually the ones that I use aren't "wired" like those. I'm thinking that the ones that I use are commonly refered to as "male to female rca "Y' adaptors. It is a rca male plug on one end and then two female plugs on the other end without any wire in between. But what you've posted in the link is about the same thing just a little different configuration.
LIke I've said, it depends on what your preamps output voltage is and I'm kinda thinking your Sony probably has plenty. You'll need an extra pair of interconnects too. You know, to bi-amp.
I think you'll really like what you get out of this. To me it really makes more sense that each of your Sequel lls is driven by it's own amplifier. If you do like this set-up. Consider what I have done and go for a third amp. It just hardly ever ends! Just a joke. Let me know how it all works out and good luck Brother.

Thanks VDR! I'll go ahead with this then. I'm glad it's going to be this simple to do.

The only bad thing about bi-amping is that you will need a bunch more cabling. In my case, I settled on long ICs and short double-runs of speaker cable. One could make a coherent argument that following a long-speaker-cable philosophy is preferable. But I don't wish to start a debate or stir up controversy.

Either way, let us know how it pans out and be sure to update this thread with the sonic benefits you hear.

Good luck !!

~VDR

Thanks again sluggo! I went ahead and bought the additional amp so it should be here next week. Also ordered some better interconnects - M1000i's. I just need to find a good quality "Y" adapter and then I'll be set to try it out.

I'll take a look at he specs on the pre-amp, but I'm not sure what to look for in terms of what would work. If you have a minute to check my link above on the pre-amp or can provide me with additional thoughts on what voltage I need to be looking for, I'd appreciate.

Thanks again for your help!

***Update***

I just looked at page 45 in the pre-amp PDF listed above (see #1) and found the following specs with regard to the pre-outs:

Outputs - PRE OUT (Front L/R, Center, Rear L/R, Woofer)
Voltage: 1 V
Impedence - 200 ohms

How does this fare in terms of what I'm trying to do?

Yeah, I can see what you mean about additional cabling, VDR. I ordered four M1000i interconnects last night. They are each 3 feet in length. I've got two sets of PureAV cables for amp-to-speaker that are each 8 feet in length. I'm going to need a cable management system before it's over! Am now looking for a good quality "Y" adapter.

Appreciate the feedback!

At the risk of being politically-incorrect around here, I've had good results with these Y-adapters from ... Monster Cables.

Cool!!! Thanks Spike! I don't have a p.i. meter, so you won't hurt my ego. ;-)

"Y" adaptors

Oh yeah. Spike's got the hook-up. Those are exactly like the one's I use from my Carver. I'm not sure about your out-put voltage on the Sony pre. I looked up the specs on the Carver CT-6 I'm using and it indicates 6V. Check the Sony's again and make sure. Heck. Maybe 1V is enough, I don't know. Perhaps the other guys here would know more about it. Guys?

I truly think that a pair of Sequel IIs might kick the butt of one of those Sony amps -- just not a really good voltage source into <4 ohms (small power supply for hi-end amplification) and preamp output voltage is low (most are 2-3 volts at full output).

You should hear marked improvement when you double up on the amplifier power !! I think that you're going to s**t yourself !!

~VDR

Yeah, I think your right VDR. I'm expecting a pretty dramatic difference once I've got things hooked up bi-amp.

Am looking at acquiring an active crossover too. Anyone with experience and recommendations on a good, affordable crossover?

vertical bi-amping of Sequel lls

I have to agree with the MLC member on the voltage thing. Current too. Voltage or current?? Is that right? I don't know. I kinda get them mixed up sometimes. I was under the impression that our Sequel ll's panels need the "current." I'm getting into the electrical engineering thing here and I'm not one. I always thought that it was the current that drove the speakers. Somebody help me out now.

vplester said:

Yeah, I think your right VDR. I'm expecting a pretty dramatic difference once I've got things hooked up bi-amp.

Am looking at acquiring an active crossover too. Anyone with experience and recommendations on a good, affordable crossover?

Click to expand...

As someone who actually used to own that preamp 10+ years ago, and used Seqell II's with it, this might help:

The output voltage from the 9000ES is very, very low. Splitting it will not give good results, mostly due to the halving of the load impedance from two amps. You might be pushing the preamp output stages into distorting. Not saying it will happen, but you dramatically increase the risk of this.

Also, due to the low max output voltage, you might not be able to reach the gain levels you want from the amps.

So bottom line on the preamp for bi-Amping, you will need something more than cables between your pre and amps.
More on this later.

Those Sony amps are not up to the task IMHO.

If looking to buy an additional amp, here's my suggestion: Sell the current Sony amp, and get a used Sunfire Cinema (the 5x200wpc) amp. You can then use four of the five amps to do the bi-amping.
Cost wise, this should be in the same ballpark you were proposing.

I powered my Sequel's with Sunfires for years (heck, I have 12 ch's worth of Sunfire now ), works very well.


As for actives, you're on the right track. This is indeed the best option for crossovers.
It might also address the pre-amp output ability issue.

By taking the L/R output of the preamp, feeding an unbalanced to balanced converter (Jensen transformer), you can then feed a pro-audio speaker processor or crossover. This will then have all the outputs you need to then feed the Sunfire through balanced cables for the panel and woofer.

If you went this route, you'd also need to modify the passive crossovers in the Sequels. Pretty straightforward to do (see my SL3XC build for some related info).


Let me know if you want to pursue this, and I can guide you through the steps, and even hook you up with some of the gear at great prices (I happen to have a Jensen, cables and a speaker processor available).

Jensen Transformer

Thanks JonFo! That's great to hear you are so familiar with this equipment. It's funny you mentioned the Sunfire, as I was considering that. May still go that way, especially with your ideas and suggestions.

I ordered a Behringer CX2310 crossover yesterday, so expect to receive it later this week. Do you think this will address the pre-amp output issue?

Am not familiar with the Jensen Transformer you speak of. Perhaps I need to understand what function the Jensen Transformer will be accomplishing. Is it simply cleaning up the signal (unbalanced to balanced) or does it boost voltage? Will putting this between the pre-amp and crossover boost the voltage from 1V to X, X being whatever is needed to accomplish the job? Or will this even be needed if I have the Behringer CX2310 crossover between the pre-amp and amps?

I like your ideas and would like to discuss more. Also interested in what you've got available to help accomplish it. Just need to better understand each piece of equipment and what it is doing. What speaker processor do you have and what functions does it perform? Does it act like an active crossover?

Thanks very much.

vplester said:

Thanks JonFo! That's great to hear you are so familiar with this equipment. It's funny you mentioned the Sunfire, as I was considering that. May still go that way, especially with your ideas and suggestions.

I ordered a Behringer CX2310 crossover yesterday, so expect to receive it later this week. Do you think this will address the pre-amp output issue?

Click to expand...

I had one of those in another system here (i have too many ) and yes, it will do OK. It will definitely address the gain issue.

vplester said:

Am not familiar with the Jensen Transformer you speak of. Perhaps I need to understand what function the Jensen Transformer will be accomplishing. Is it simply cleaning up the signal (unbalanced to balanced) or does it boost voltage? Will putting this between the pre-amp and crossover boost the voltage from 1V to X, X being whatever is needed to accomplish the job? Or will this even be needed if I have the Behringer CX2310 crossover between the pre-amp and amps?

Click to expand...

The Jensen is primarily an isolation transformer, with appropriate wiring to convert balanced to balanced transmission.

We go into a ton of detail on this whole topic in this old thread on 'Best ML processor/processor'

vplester said:

I like your ideas and would like to discuss more. Also interested in what you've got available to help accomplish it. Just need to better understand each piece of equipment and what it is doing. What speaker processor do you have and what functions does it perform? Does it act like an active crossover?

Thanks very much.

Click to expand...

Speaker processors are crossovers and a lot more. See that thread, my system description (see link in my sig) and other threads, just search for 'DriveRack' and my ID and you'll get hundreds of hits

I have a DriveRack 260 available for sale, as well as a pair of Jensen transformers DM2-RX plus a ton of balanced cables, etc.

I used to have an even more complex system