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Thread: Spire with External Crossovers & Electronics.

  1. #16
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    Most impressive! Bravo!

  2. #17
    Member Ps68's Avatar
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    Thanks Spectral, the resistors just arrived, so build can begin tomorrow. I think i should sit and outline what i hear with the current crossover in detail, and add what i would want to improve, which areas etc. Then when i connect the new boards i can be more specific with regards what differs.

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    Wow. Great write-up. Am looking at this thread with a keen anticipation of the outcome, have thought of similar things but know nothing of what you are doing or how to do it. My reason would be for the improvement of the speakers that I have now that I am in no way disappointed with either, just would love to hear them at their absolute best. Congrats on an awesome build.

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    Hm I don't know how I missed this thread. Great stuff.

    I've got Clarity caps and Mundorf inductors in my x-overs, though I don't use MLs anymore. Threads like this show how it really is possible to raise the performance bar of stock speakers with a little effort and not too much money.

    Brilliant!

  5. #20
    Member Ps68's Avatar
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    Thanks BZR & User211 (Justin?).

    I'm glad that some people read this and don't think heck, he should get out more...

    As i posted, the resistors did arrive, so went on to the burner overnight. Build continued, and was finished yesterday evening. Installation was pretty smooth. I did the left channel first and phased the balance left/right just to check that overall the new boards were working as planned. These crossovers have some basic reconfigurations over the standard board, nothing that should make an electrical difference though. All parts were supplied by HiFi Collective, a great company to deal with, very helpful and can get most parts needed.. Some of the MR's were special order, as were the Mundorf 4.3mH, and the Duelund resistors were all non standard values, hence the wait. All components measured very close to the intended value, caps were within 1%.

    So off the bat, and bear in mind that most of the components used have had 5 days on my Audiodharma cooker, the original boards were not a disgrace. There was certainly a clarity to the sound, better separation and detail, a more spacious and homogeneous sound. I left them playing before sitting again, and there had been some gradual improvements, though I'm content to leave being critical for a few more days of use. It is now 24 hrs since first connecting, around 12 hrs of music playing through them, and they are developing, and continuing with what i first heard. Focused and specific with regards to note placement and depiction, brass has that wonderful resonance, more prominent. Do remember that they did sound very good before, so i am impressed with how ML have achieved such a good sound from what is essentially a low cost crossover network, clearly well designed for the panel.
    Currently i have Natalie Merchants latest cd, 'Leave your sleep' playing, i've not heard it this good before. It's well recorded, sometimes quite complex in places, many differing voices, instruments, textures, the bass is wonderfully full and has real impact & definition, it seems as though the board has helped improve the bass, didn't expect that to be honest. I was half expecting to have to add some resistance to the boards to compensate for the lowered ESR and DCR, but so far balance seems very nice.
    I'm going to play Anouar Brahem's 'The astounding eyes of Rita' later, this has been the most spooky 'you are there' recording i've heard lately, recommended if you are into north African/Arabic music, it is very beautiful. Other cd's i use to gauge what's happening are Phronesis - Alive, Dieter Ilg - Ottello @ Schloss Elmau, Diana Krall Live in Paris and Girl in the other room, some Kenny Burrell, Miles, Brubeck, & co.

    Attached some build shots and install.

    Early build:



    Final build: Right and Left, they are handed for fitting into the relevant case.



    Fitted, Right Channel:



    I will add a more comprehensive write up early in the new year, by when they should be pretty settled.

    Justin, did you rebuild your crossover boards on your Esl's? Remind me what speakers you use btw. If you find yourself down my way you're welcome to drop by for a coffee, likewise Dougster or any other ML nut here..

    Back soon,

    Happy Xmas to all,
    Paul.

  6. #21
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    Truly Impressive. Can't wait for your listening report!

  7. #22
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    Cool

    well done Paul Excellent work and I love the Astounding eyes of Rita too ... A cracker and think maybe his best amongst some excellent CDs he has made on ECM.

    Re read your description of bass changes with cabinet reconstruction too ..Sounds impressive!!

    - look forward to your full burn in assessment!

    - thanks for coffee invite May make it down south some time in next few months!!!!

    Welcome awaits in Melrose any time you're up north, and a Lunar ML experience !!!
    Bruce
    Spires Velodyne DD+ 12 sub and Moon Simaudio and Linn LP12 n stuff
    http:/www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7693

  8. #23
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    Bruce, yes, one of his best, all quite varied and distinctive though.

    Brief update is that as Spectral has stated, the gradual settling/ charging of the caps has shown a staggering improvement across the board, right down to the lowest notes. The system is pretty much out of the picture now, what an upgrade such as this does is relieve the music of any strain & compression, music simply seems to flow totally unencumbered, to the point where it is easy to sense around the back of an instrument, going beyond palpability, often a surprising experience. Fundamentally, a much more powerful presentation has developed, dynamics and impact are first rate for a stat.. Played (best of) Lisa Gerrard last week and was simply stunned, I heard this very differently this time, a wonderful experience!

  9. #24
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    Ps68,
    how did you find out about inductors values as a replacement (Mundorf 4.3mH?). I've been rebuilding my Summit crossovers and would like to change inductors but have no idea about values on them.
    ML SUMMIT(BT mod), ML Stage(BT mod), Oppo BDP-95 (BT mod), Conrad Johnson MET1(BT mod), Musical Fidelity Supercharger 750K(BT mod),

    Click! <My System> Click!

  10. #25
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    I was fortunate enough to be given the values by ML, it's worth asking service dept for the schematic, fingers crossed. Otherwise, de-solder originals and measure with an lcr meter if you have access to one?

  11. #26
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    Thanks Ps68,
    I'll try calling ML. So far I got caps replaced with Sonicap Gen I. Summit's inside cabinet space is very limited: max 38mm height of crossover components so your idea with external electronics is very inspiring.
    ML SUMMIT(BT mod), ML Stage(BT mod), Oppo BDP-95 (BT mod), Conrad Johnson MET1(BT mod), Musical Fidelity Supercharger 750K(BT mod),

    Click! <My System> Click!

  12. #27
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    Hello Ps68,

    Truly amazing transformation. Makes my hands itch to do something similar to my SL3's.

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    Default Awesome

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps68 View Post
    Thanks BZR & User211 (Justin?).

    I'm glad that some people read this and don't think heck, he should get out more...

    Attached some build shots and install.

    Early build:



    Final build: Right and Left, they are handed for fitting into the relevant case.



    Fitted, Right Channel:



    I will add a more comprehensive write up early in the new year, by when they should be pretty settled.


    Back soon,

    Happy Xmas to all,
    Paul.
    Not sure if you answered this before or not , But what different steps would I need to take to change the crossover frequency so it would match the Montis? without re doing the whole thing and to save a little cash and time . Thanks =)

  15. #30
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    Dynamic, Hello & welcome to MLO..

    Sorry, i'm unsure what you are asking: I would not alter the x over f, but unsure about the Montis bit?

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