Spire with External Crossovers & Electronics.

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Ps68

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Firstly i must say hi to all ML owners, i registered years ago when i bought my first pair,(Vantages), but clearly messed up my login as i never could get in. I re registered as i would like to share my latest project with my Spires.

Essentially, i decided to re-house all of the electronics in a separate cabinet, to isolate them from the vibrations and magnetic effects of the bass driver. The work was fairly straightforward, taking around 3 hrs per side on top of making the new cabinets.

Before the change i thought that they were a very good speaker anyway, my ancillary components should allow any change to be audible. After the work was complete i must say i'm surprised that ML don't offer this, though in their defence i think the extra box, complete with umbilical's, doesn't get the wife too exited..

The clarity and detail is in my mind a significant improvement, i am hearing discs in a way that is more expressive, in a way i'm listening to the sound of a musician playing an instrument, rather than the sound of the instrument alone, there is a profound human presence to the recordings now, which i'm sure ive not felt so often before. Separation is better too though i'm not clear why this would be, i wasn't expecting that, perhaps a result of the new level of detail? The bass also i feel is tighter and more rhythmical, also deeper and adds a truly fundamental ingredient to the flow of the piece.

I've attached some photo's, though i have since further modified the esl umbilical to a individually shielded design of 19 awg. (Photo's of new leads are now shown). I did make up the leads myself too. They are sliver plated copper, covered in cotton sheath, wrapped then shielded and wrapped again, the 3 sets are braided together. I treated these like an interconnect lead.

Shown with the first set of leads..
SpireExternalCrossover12.jpg

And the new set..
System1-1.jpg


System2.jpg


WBT Spades are now used.
System5.jpg


The internals in their new cabinet.
SpireExternalCrossover5.jpg


I have now added the updated photo's with the new umbilical's. I also posted this on uk based, as i am, HiFi Critic forum, here:
http://www.hificritic.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=267
There are more photo's of the work there.

Regards to all,

Ps
 
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Paul, welcome....again ! Interesting undertaking you have there and it obviously has benefited your listening experience. Thanks for sharing and when you get a moment please post your system up in the 'members section' for all to enjoy !
 
Even though its not a lot of space maybe the tiny bit makes a difference in bass. That and there is less vibrations to muddle things up. Nice work.
 
Thanks Dave,

I'll add the system soon!

Regards
 
Brilliant setup. I wonder about doing a similar setup with my Purity's, or maybe upgrading the internal wiring at the same time. Any thoughts?

Kyle
 
Kyle,

Many thanks. I'm less certain of how the electronics are arranged in the purity, but from my experience with the Spire, there is real improvement to be had here. I think that the arrangement with the Spire was a compromise, also with the Summit x, though the extra boxes make this an unlikely route for ML to take. I have breifly heard the Summit x, and the CLX, and can honestly say that i would not part with my Spires!

Re the internal wiring, the existing is fine, no need to change that.

Regards,
Paul.
 
Vantage to spire Xover

Hello Paul that is a Brilliant Job ,I wanted to ask you if you could respond to me
I have the factory layout and what capacitors would be best siuted to improve the panels sound .I like the Mundorf silver oil in the past. for the Big electrolytics the black cap Jantzenpoly caps look like a good replacement thank you, Paul .
 
Hello Dallas21,

Many thanks for the comments and apologies for not replying sooner! I'm away from my Spires right now but will be back in around 10 days, Will check what caps are used in mine then, but I've left all electronics as standard, but just rehoused them. I'd be keen to know whether there are any sonic improvements to be had by replacing caps to something else?
I'm about to do the granite base cabinet modification to mine, I've had 22 kgs on each recently and the improvement is pretty seductive, I'll post images once complete..
Best Regards,
Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So, we decided to go ahead with the bass cabinet, on the basis that the speaker could really do with much more weight low level, this stabilises the panel better when the speaker is tilted forward to close to vertical, ( 88.4 degrees), and results in, to my ears, sharper focused images, and more detail as in texture and tone of instruments. Also i think the dynamics and speed have increased, but i know i cant just swap back and forth for comparisons. Bass, - simply better defined, gaining a solidity that surprised a few friends that were a bit dubious of hybrid's. Total weight of the stone panels are 25 kgs each speaker, so overall speaker weight now around 51 kgs. Stone selected is Black Granite with a natural almost riven finish, and Ceaserstone for the sides.

Visually also i prefer them over the cherry, my wife also, which surprised me, she was not sure what to expect, but is happy..

Here they are:

SpireCabinets-7.jpg


SpireCabinets.jpg


SpireCabinets-6.jpg


SpireCabinets-4.jpg


SpireCabinets-8.jpg


Next up is the crossover, full rebuild with Clarity MR, Mundorf foil's, and Duelund CAST resistors.

Best Regards,
Paul.
 
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It has been 5 days since the additional stone panels were added, and i'm truly impressed with the bass response, just played a disc that ive been playing for about 7 years, and there is some very deep bass in one track that i simply didnt know was there, and it is not subtle, it was not loud as i'm meant to be working from home at the moment, but i felt it in my chest, very controlled deep deep bass. I'll get my ML dealer over to hear them again, this is more than i expected, as the improvement is top to bottom, definition, clarity, texture and tone, it is really worth doing..

Edit: I have since tested in room with a signal generator and sound level meter, i have output at 18Hz, nothing below that, but very definite at 22Hz!
 
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Thanks Spectral.
My ML dealer came over this week, with a colleague, they were both very impressed with what they heard, both in transparency and definition, top to bottom. Although not as much bass as the summit x in quantity terms, more in quality terms, i did hear a faint expletive when Charlie Haden kicked in on his birthday bash cd..

So its crossover rebuild time now, parts have been trickling in, boards made from tufnol, and caps/inductors run on an Audiodharma at 5-6 days.

This is the original crossover:

SpireCrossovers.jpg


This is a model of the new one: Updated 16/12/2011. Thermal Switch removed.
Spire2011CrossoverNetworkv2012-VWTMP-1.jpg


The greyed out board in the above render is a 90v dc supply, biasing the dielectric of the umbilical between the step up transformer and the panel & woofer, this was a significant development, more than i was expecting. I use this on my interconnects, and is very worthwhile.

Rear showing Mundorf copper foil 16 awg inductor placement.
Spire2011CrossoverNetworkrearv2012-VWTMP.jpg


Caps Are Clarity MR, Inductors on the rear of the board are Mundorf, resistors are Duelund Cast. All values as per the ML schematic.

Parts due in today, so getting close, should be built in time for the Xmas break..
 
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Caps and 4.3mH inductors arrived and went onto Audiodharma last night. Duelund resistors still not here though, i'm really hoping i get them before xmas as i have some time off work at last to complete and install this lot.

Pic attached of the initial build and cooker..

SpireCrossovers-1.jpg
 
Kudos on a a quality build-out of the analog crossover. I admire the effort.
 
Thanks Jon, the effort is easy when you enjoy the outcome..
 
Thanks Spectral, the resistors just arrived, so build can begin tomorrow. I think i should sit and outline what i hear with the current crossover in detail, and add what i would want to improve, which areas etc. Then when i connect the new boards i can be more specific with regards what differs.
 
Wow. Great write-up. Am looking at this thread with a keen anticipation of the outcome, have thought of similar things but know nothing of what you are doing or how to do it. My reason would be for the improvement of the speakers that I have now that I am in no way disappointed with either, just would love to hear them at their absolute best. Congrats on an awesome build.
 
Hm I don't know how I missed this thread. Great stuff.

I've got Clarity caps and Mundorf inductors in my x-overs, though I don't use MLs anymore. Threads like this show how it really is possible to raise the performance bar of stock speakers with a little effort and not too much money.

Brilliant!:)
 
Thanks BZR & User211 (Justin?).

I'm glad that some people read this and don't think heck, he should get out more...:music:

As i posted, the resistors did arrive, so went on to the burner overnight. Build continued, and was finished yesterday evening. Installation was pretty smooth. I did the left channel first and phased the balance left/right just to check that overall the new boards were working as planned. These crossovers have some basic reconfigurations over the standard board, nothing that should make an electrical difference though. All parts were supplied by HiFi Collective, a great company to deal with, very helpful and can get most parts needed.. Some of the MR's were special order, as were the Mundorf 4.3mH, and the Duelund resistors were all non standard values, hence the wait. All components measured very close to the intended value, caps were within 1%.

So off the bat, and bear in mind that most of the components used have had 5 days on my Audiodharma cooker, the original boards were not a disgrace. There was certainly a clarity to the sound, better separation and detail, a more spacious and homogeneous sound. I left them playing before sitting again, and there had been some gradual improvements, though I'm content to leave being critical for a few more days of use. It is now 24 hrs since first connecting, around 12 hrs of music playing through them, and they are developing, and continuing with what i first heard. Focused and specific with regards to note placement and depiction, brass has that wonderful resonance, more prominent. Do remember that they did sound very good before, so i am impressed with how ML have achieved such a good sound from what is essentially a low cost crossover network, clearly well designed for the panel.
Currently i have Natalie Merchants latest cd, 'Leave your sleep' playing, i've not heard it this good before. It's well recorded, sometimes quite complex in places, many differing voices, instruments, textures, the bass is wonderfully full and has real impact & definition, it seems as though the board has helped improve the bass, didn't expect that to be honest. I was half expecting to have to add some resistance to the boards to compensate for the lowered ESR and DCR, but so far balance seems very nice.
I'm going to play Anouar Brahem's 'The astounding eyes of Rita' later, this has been the most spooky 'you are there' recording i've heard lately, recommended if you are into north African/Arabic music, it is very beautiful. Other cd's i use to gauge what's happening are Phronesis - Alive, Dieter Ilg - Ottello @ Schloss Elmau, Diana Krall Live in Paris and Girl in the other room, some Kenny Burrell, Miles, Brubeck, & co.

Attached some build shots and install.

Early build:
IMG_1184.jpg



Final build: Right and Left, they are handed for fitting into the relevant case.
IMG_1193.jpg

IMG_1192.jpg


Fitted, Right Channel:
IMG_1197.jpg



I will add a more comprehensive write up early in the new year, by when they should be pretty settled.

Justin, did you rebuild your crossover boards on your Esl's? Remind me what speakers you use btw. If you find yourself down my way you're welcome to drop by for a coffee, likewise Dougster or any other ML nut here..

Back soon,

Happy Xmas to all,
Paul.
 

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